a snowy 12 below zero here in the twin cities this morning.
From Wolcott on Frankensense and Mirth:
Franken Is Winning, and Coleman Knows It. Coleman's occupancy of Paul Wellstone's former Senate seat has been an unsightly bunion on the body politic that has cried out for removal.....
That Al Franken, whose jack o' lantern grin spells Halloween horror for K'Lo at NRO, is history's appointed and annointed bunion-remover makes this turn of events all the tastier. Who knew back in the white-heat days of Saturday Night Live--celebrated and memorialized with the scholarly bravura of a ball-turret gunner by Dennis Perrin--that some day we might be addressing Stuart Smalley's creator as "Senator Franken..."
And a Senate whose freshman class includes Al Franken and Caroline Kennedy would send so many righteous souls around the bend they'd meet themselves coming and going.
What I find astounding is how so many alleged progressives are comfortable dismissing the anger and frustration within the GLBT community over Rev. Warren's being accorded a position of honor at Obama's inaugural. Having read so much truly offensive commentary on the issue, and offered hundreds of comments in response on numerous sites, I finally posted a diary on the Daily Kos expressing clearly, and I believe defending adequately my outrage.
Ron ~ . That's a fantastic, very moving diary--so very well done. I hope everyone who cares about civil rights and this distressing Warren choice will read it. Thank you.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
I just came back from reading and watching the video of the entry you presented on "dailykos" Well done and how wise beyond the years you were in knowing right from wrong with discrimination. I grew up in Detroit and I heard the same racist blather from my parents. I knew they were full of it and never bought into the racism bigotry of the times. Some people are sheep and never think for themselves about these issues and just follow the loudest voice, right or wrong. You actually knew right from wrong before your own parents or those adults in charge during those times.
Thanks for sharing this, and after reading and responding to some on this blog last night who, whether blinded by their own bigotry against gays or not, continue to dismiss the plight of gays in today's world by trying to differentiate between the plight of blacks and slavery and the struggle of gays and lesbians of today claiming we have it so good compared to slavery therefore, we have nothing to bitch about. It isn't a good thing to dismiss the killing of people in the world today because they are gay or perceived to be gay only because one thinks other minorities had it worse and that we can hide our gayness if we only try. We should just shut up and let them insult us because they have weighed this out and it is okay to offend 2 % of the population rather than a higher number of fundamentalists. The debate here last night approached insensitivity and indifference. Your entry brought some well deserved light on this and drew some important parallels and it made my day. Thanks.
Will
· 11 months ago
John, You hit the nail squarely on the head here, there is no debate on the issue. Team Obama have demonstrated that they will not act on the moral imperative of our civil rights. People without a moral compass will treat you as poorly as they think they can, which is why there must be a political cost to this.
red_dwarf
· 11 months ago
How can there be a political cost when the LGBT community is doing nothing but complaining. It is time for action. Why is the gay band still scheduled? Why have they not pulled out? Why hasn't Lowrey withdrew? Why hasn't others?
If there were enough people out there with COURAGE - and cancelled their appearence -Warren could removed from the itinery - Obama would have no choice but to conceed. If the LGBT community does not have the COURAGE to act now - then they should be content with staying under the bus. If I were on the schedule of events, and I were gay, or supported gays, you better believe your bottom dollar I would not make an appearence. Like I said LGBT communty - you think turning your backs is a mechanism of action? If you believe that then I feel sorry for you - nothing short of canceling appearences will make a difference.
Will
· 11 months ago
I agree. The crowd will be so large that there is no way that people turning their backs will even get noticed.
If we don't send a strong clear message on this, then we deserve what we get down the road from Obama.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
One of our biggest problems is that we have no real leadership in the LGBT community to make these decisions or we have too many leaders all running around not unlike chickens with their heads cut off. I agree that the marching band should cancel in protest. I also think Obama's Achilles Heel is the fact that he can not reverse a decision once it has been made right or wrong. That only has to do with his pride and that of the people who are advising him. I do hope he wakes up and becomes his own man. ( or are we seeing the man he may be?! Time will tell ) I think this should stay in front of the media until they realize that Warren is more a liability than an asset to them. Warren et al did not and will not vote for him and will fight him tooth and nail, Obama's base worked and voted for him so he could win and become president. Now which one would you prefer to thank?
munjoy fan
· 11 months ago
Going to be a nasty day here in Maine--very cold, northeaster forecast. And someone in my neighborhood is stealing firewood from people. My neighbor who depends on wood to warm his family is getting frantic about his losses. My pile is back from the street and covered, so I am hoping....Times are not easy up here. Rick Warren is a bigot, because he groups people under a single heading and discriminates against them in a way that is harmful to them. Obviously Obama would never choose someone with an antisemitic or antiAfricanAmerican component to his world view to speak at his inauguration. Clearly Obama doesn't get it, and he needs to do some personal work. Do I think he is strong and brave enough to acknowledge an error? Absolutely. Do I think he will do something about this problem? Yes I do. The thing that amazes me is the energy these fundamental megachurches put into this issue. I am a very lapsed Catholic, but I have never heard a priest talk about homosexuality from the pulpit. In fact, I think that the congregation would be shocked and offended if they did so--to say nothing of the open acknowledgement that there are homosexual priests and nuns in the Church and always have been. Let us hope Obama uses his bully pulpit better in the near future to fix this problem.
Older_Wiser
· 11 months ago
Theft is bad, but suffering is worse, the person stealing may not have any means of getting what they need, or may just be hoarding; in any event many in the NE are going to be suffering from these storms, and many are still without electricity in MA and NH, from what I've read. Also, there are electricity outages in the Chicago areas, and perhaps others I haven't heard of.
Expect to see more of what you're experiencing as more people lose jobs, hopefulness, and are thrust into misery and want. To be frank, if my kids were freezing, I'd like to think I wouldn't steal, but would at least have the courage to ask what I could do to get them heat.
We've had 60+ degree temps in this part of NC for the past several days, but tonight will be 23 and tomorrow night 20...then back up to the 60s again Wed and Thurs...very weird weather patterns.
grandma
· 11 months ago
Chicago Sun Times:
Warren pick insults struggle for justice Event calls for black pastor, not gay rights foe
....I, too, am stunned by Obama's decision. Frankly, it's insulting.
How do you put a civil rights icon like the Rev. Joseph Lowery at the tail end of an event that honors the nation's election of its first African-American president?
The only reason I can think of for Obama to give Warren such an honor is that he is already thinking about re-election.
The more Obama shows himself to be limp wristed, the more the Rick Warren decision seems especially tragic.
Richard
· 11 months ago
Wouldn't it be great if the Lesbian and Gay Band Association marching in the parade where there in full uniform with instruments held at the ready, but with signs attached that said something like "Silenced by Proposition 8"?
JohnInTexas
· 11 months ago
Or if they showed up and marched in nothing but black chaps, butt cheeks out for all to see, playing I will Survive.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
Brilliant idea! Only we all know they wouldn't be allowed to protest. We have apparently lost that right.
grandma
· 11 months ago
ST. PAUL, Minn. - A golden retriever is recovering after being shot twice and left for dead in a snowbank in western Minnesota.
Orphan Annie, as members of Retrieve a Golden of Minnesota (RAGOM) have named the dog, is recovering in the intensive care unit at University of Minnesota Veterinary Hospital after making it through a complicated surgery to repair wounds to the neck and esophagus and the abdomen area. Surgeons removed 20 percent of the dark red 2-year-old retriever's stomach due to damage to tissue and infection. Her medical bills have topped $9,000 and could surpass $12,000 to $15,000, the nonprofit said.
A good samaritan found Annie and brought her to a local Humane Society. The dog was then transferred to the University of Minnesota.
Those interested in contributing can contact RAGOM at www.ragom.org
Toward the end of his speech on Saturday, Warren also talked about singer Melissa Ethridge, who performed earlier in the evening. Warren said the two had a "wonderful conversation" and that he is a huge fan who has all her albums.
The openly lesbian gay rights activist even agreed to sign her Christmas album for him, he said.
Older_Wiser
· 11 months ago
So, neither is conflicted by the beliefs of the other and what they represent? Simply amazing. I guess a "civil" veneer is sometimes everything...
knobandtube
· 11 months ago
I just sent this to change.org. I'm so damned angry. M.r. Inclusive or Mr. Hate Empowering?
This is the life we lead.
Do you think the lying, vile campaign in favor of Proposition 8 including the lies Reverend Warren told about the effects of Proposion 8. And the hateful way he routinely describes gay and lesbian Americans as pedophiles proclaiming the are unworthy and going to Hell contributes to this story in particular and the increased violence against gays in general? RICHMOND, Calif. — Richmond police are offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of four men who allegedly kidnapped and gang raped a lesbian Saturday night, Lt. Mark Gagan said Friday. …
I do. President-elect Obama isn't being inclusive by welcoming the intolerant, divisive figure who fans the flames of bigotry by his rhetoric. He is giving credibility to a another hate-monger in a reverend's clothing. How very disappointing and disturbing.
This isn't my story it's the story of the nameless lesbian gang-raped by the vigilantes empowered by the likes of Warren and President-elect Obama's singling him out for honor.
Indigo
· 11 months ago
Mr. Obama's decision to curry favor among the anti-gay set puts him in a nasty spot. He cannot govern from the reich.
cowboyneok
· 11 months ago
There aren't two views on "civil rights." Perfect!
Don't let them try to replace the word "civil rights" with "social issues." "Social issues" are "not being invited to a party." Civil Rights include not being able to be married. No job protections, and other institutionalized discrimination!
cowboyneok
· 11 months ago
Wow, David Gregory is proving why he shouldn't be be host of "Meet the Press." He is just KISSING the Klingon Warrior Princess, Condi's Rice BUTT! Why is David Gregory such a LOVER and APOLOGIST of the Bu$h Administration that he refuses to ask tough questions and refuses to get answers. I guess he thinks the perch of "Meet the Press" is just to invite our leaders on his show for "teas."
Butch1
· 11 months ago
It seems he has always been a shill for the White House and all who dwell therein. The only tough questions he will ask will only be aimed at Democrats and progressives. Count on it.
1billinnj2
· 11 months ago
in one of obama's press conferences he stated that he would hope that when they (obama administration ) are wrong then they will correct that wrong and admit that they are wrong. well, they are wrong on warren and will not admit it. i think it may be wise to let them know of the statement that obama made and to keep reminding him of how wrong he is on this pick. it seems that we gays are becoming the new blacks of the 50's( no slaves can marry, can not associate with people, can not drink from that water fountain, can not get proper medical care or research, can not visit loved ones in hospitals.............................................and so it goes.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
" . . .he stated that he would hope that when they (obama administration ) are wrong then they will correct that wrong and admit that they are wrong. . ." ------------------------------------------------------------ If we are to believe that, he must think that he is not wrong and that our feelings regarding this insult, are misguided.
cowboyneok
· 11 months ago
I just joined the Facebook Group that will turn their backs on Rick Warren during the Inauguration. Its the VERY LEAST we can do as a form on non-violent protest.
I'm not sure that's the best idea, because not being visible isn't making much of a statement. It doesn't communicate much to the media, or others who will be in attendance. It may be better to go, while displaying some sort of unambiguous anti-Warren protest statement.
And/or: Stay at home and organize a VISIBLE protest at home.
My point is: I don't think "not showing up," given the hoards of people who WILL show up, is going to be noticed.
Let's think about this, as a community. We had a very effective protest day on Nov. 15; "Light up the Night" last night was worthwhile as well. What about coordinated national/local protests on Jan. 20, in which people who had no plans of going to Washington anyway could participate (bundled up, in much of the country!)?
Suggestion: A bus motif. As in both (1) back of the bus (by Warren), and (2) being thrown under the bus (by Obama).
How about protestors in Washington (if not everywhere) try to hold/wear plush toy buses? Plush toys will be easier to handle than plastic or metal buses in cold weather. And they aren't heavy, and could be attached to a lanyard or necklace. They would also be a great conversation starter.
John Aravosis, what do you think about using the bus motif? I think it could be very poignant and powerful.
Could someone quickly get mass plush toy buses manufactured, to distribute/sell in Washington and around the country?
red_dwarf
· 11 months ago
If all LGBT participants AND THEIR supporters withdrew from the line-up are you suggesting that this won't be noticed?
I disagree. But I do like your recommendation of not only withdrawing, but having a local protest (or serveral large ones) going on at the same time. That is a good idea.
shell
· 11 months ago
I would suggest it wouldn't be noticed. As a straight woman, I was once told I am naive about how many are gay. Still, there are going to be so many in DC for this inaugural, a simple boycott will not be noticed. There are thousands of others to fill the void.
kh7463
· 11 months ago
But would the average person understand what the "bus" means?
Butch1
· 11 months ago
We weren't invited.
red_dwarf
· 11 months ago
Cowboy - you know we all love ya brother but let me clarify something here.
"Very Least" doesn't cut it. Very least is a cheap shot. Doesn't work. How about changing very least to "best we can do". How's that?
Screw the inauagration. If a STRONG message is not sent to Obama early - then sit back and be railroaded by the religious fruitcakes on the right and, quit complaining. As I have posted on a few threads already, if the LGBT community, and THEIR supporters are going to do nothing more then bitch, then to hell with their bitching. Who in the hell likes whiners?
Change comes from COURAGEOUS ACTS, doing the right thing. That is the only question here. Whether the LGBT community, and their supporters, have the COURAGE to do what is right - and that is to withdraw form the inaugaration all together unless Warren is taken off.
Fight fire with fire. Very least is for cowards (not that I'm saying you're a coward Cowboy, but I think you get my argument).
cowboyneok
· 11 months ago
I'm not going to be there, but I know some will be. Those that are there should make a public statement. I've already suggested the HUNGER STRIKE but my pastor and I came to the conclusion it should be saved for something equal to the direness of the non-violent act with a goal of a change to a positive outcome. I will HUNGER STRIKE for the right reason and I am watching the Obama Administration to ensure the next generation of LGBT Americans gets their civil rights.
tlsintx
· 11 months ago
i'll join it. facebook is an excellent way to explain an issue to lots of young people...
perfect.
GaryBrush
· 11 months ago
I think the best thing to do is not watch or show up at the Inauguration.
red_dwarf
· 11 months ago
Exactly Gary - as I posted below. The time to ACT is NOW. Turning ones back is a cheap trick. Withdrawal from the inaugaration, for example, the gay band, is the only form of protest that will have meaning.
If the LGBT community was really as serious as they sound - then they would do this. If they do not have the COURAGE to act - to fight for their rights - if they are willing to stand by and get rail-roaded - then I can't feel sorry for them. Tough luck, but in this world you have to fight for your rights - you have to stand up for your rights - you have to have the COURAGE to do what is NECESSARY.
You want to make a difference? Then withdraw from the inaugaration, the gay band, you name it. Anyone who supports gays and their rights should withdraw from the lineup. Either that or please, shut the hell up - if you don't mind me being frank - like I said - cowards are a dime a dozen - it takes COURAGE to stand up and do what is right.
The question is: Can the LGBT community and THEIR supporters find that COURAGE? If you cannot, Obama will define it for you.
sullivan
· 11 months ago
Recently, I suggested the same thing; that the gay band withdraw from the ceremonies. I was met with criticism here from that suggestion. Feelings were that it is not about them, that they have earned a spot in this parade. i disagree with this thinking....they are our only way to make an unified statement. I sent them a letter asking them to withdraw.
red_dwarf
· 11 months ago
If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.
Earning a spot has nothing to do with standing up and fighting for your rights. Who gives a rat's ass about earning a spot? Hell, anyone with half a brain knows they deserve to be there.
Like I said, if I were part of the inaugaral lineup my withdrawal would already have been submitted - stipulated that once Warren was removed I'd return. But then, I have something called COURAGE. Whether the LGBT community does the same is still an open question.
sullivan
· 11 months ago
THE BAND: sflgfb@yahoo.com Send them an email expressing your views.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
I thought we had finally earned a spot at the "inclusive" table, yet, we were thrown only crumbs at this feast. I agree. The band needs to make a statement about not supporting bigotry by entertaining bigots that are invited to this ceremony.
Georgette Orwell
· 11 months ago
The choice of Warren stunned me. I've been telling people that they're going to be surprised how liberal Obama is not and knew that I wouldn't be happy with many of his decisions, but I DID think that he was pitch-perfect on his presentations.
Oops.
It's one thing to talk with self-aggrandizing hypocrites and haters, but to elevate a pseudo-religious showman to this place of honor is a message I certainly didn't want to hear. Of course I'm not especially enthused about the fact that religion pays any role in this secular civil ceremony, but that's a hobbyhorse to be ridden at another time.
An old, white, straight female atheist who finally was beginning to feel very optimistic about this country, I was disappointed beyond words at this blatant (and totally useless) pandering. I found that all my interest in the inauguration and the potential for progress totally dissipated in a flash.
I'm sure that Warren is cagey enough to craft a lovely speech that will cast him in the best light, but my thoughts are the only light appropriate for this unholy poseur is a strategically placed lightning bolt.
Nasara
· 11 months ago
John, your obsession with this made up Warren controversy is distracting and pathetic. I wish you had been half as vociferous about Prop 8 before the election as you are about this faux story.
Merlin
· 11 months ago
Agreed!!!
Agreed!!!
Agreed!!
Stand Proud
· 11 months ago
"faux story" my ass.
As John said: "There aren't two views on civil rights, unless you mean the right view and the wrong view, the moral view and the immoral view."
Amen.
You are doing important work here, John.
shell
· 11 months ago
Go back to your religious blogs, Mormon. And yes, you are either Mormon, or some other insane religious cult. I can tell when you call this an "obsession" by John.
red_dwarf
· 11 months ago
Personally I think Warren is a narcissistic asshole, on top of being a bigot and a homophobe. Here's what Warren had to say bout those who were behind Terry Schiavo 's husband wanting to remove life-support from his brain dead wife - he said that these people were commiting "...an atrocity worthy of Nazism". So if you don't agree with this rat bastard you're a Nazi. [taken from post by Joe Palermo, HP]
This guy is a total jerk. Obama made a big mistake, bigtime. The only question that remains is will the LGBT community and their supporters, as I said below, do anything about it.
aquarius2
· 11 months ago
Here is a poll conducted after defeat of Prop 8. Pretty interesting reading.
Prop 8 was never about what is right and proper it was about bigotry and hatred. The so called religious community rallies around the "threats" to heterosexuals and that marriage is sacred. Funny how you still need a marriage license to get married. The religious part of it is pure horseshit. the Minister or what ever is no more qualified to join two people together than the guy at the Elvis Chapel in Vegas. Why doesn't Rick Warren spend time trying to find out why the divorce rate is close to 50% in this country. Multiple wives, non support of children, wife beating, etc. are far more damaging than two guys or two girls who love each other making a committment to love and respect each other. As far as those claiming John has an obsession about Warren i believe that is off base. John's obsession which is shared by thousands of others is about fair and just treatment. To elevate this bigot by giving him a world wide pulpit at the inauguration will empower others who believe fear and hatred is the answer. Obama has effectively marginalized the Gay and Lesbian community by endorsing one of the main obstacles standing in the way to legal unions. I don't want to hear how letting him speak exposes him, everyone knows what he stands for, what it does do is send a message that Obama can be swayed by the size of the voting block, well he should also realize that for many of us non-gay and non-lesbian who support their rights we will pause and note well how he handles similar issues in the future. We had 8 years of lies and smirks, I for one don't want 8 years of saying one thing and doing another because it is expedient but not right.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
Thank you for your excellent post. I found some very interesting research on divorce in America. Here are some comparisons between various groups. It starts with the group with the highest divorce rate (born again Christians) and ends with the group with the lowest divorce rate (Agnostics and Atheists)
Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate)
Born again Christians Baptists Mainline Protestants Mormons Catholics Lutherans Atheists and Agnostics
The study also found that 90% of the divorces among born-again couples occur after they have been "saved".
Texas has the highest divorce rate. Massachusetts has the lowest.
The South and Midwest have the highest. The North East has the lowest.
The least educated have the highest. The most educated have the lowest.
lynchie
· 11 months ago
Nice post. The core group who make up the congregations of the fundies have the highest divorce. Like the republican Senators and Congressman, more sex crimes, more divorces, more toe tapping, more diaper wearing, more intern fondling than any other group and supposedly the most pious and christian. It a sham for votes and money nothing more, nothing less. this is the same group that have the father-daughter weekends a frightening sight to behold.
KevinSF
· 11 months ago
Endorsing others that discriminate against gays may be considered "smart politically, "a wise move" or "an olive branch" by some but when its you being hated on and the future president calls it a difference of opinion on "social issues" it stinks. Stop telling me to "get over it" I cant and will not. I will have to accept it as some thing I cant change. Period.
RobertSanDimas
· 11 months ago
You don't have to accept a damned thing. Keep writing and talking.
kh7463
· 11 months ago
Yea, it is pretty bitter up this way. Love the way you can walk on the snow and barely leave a footprint.
boloboffin
· 11 months ago
Ha, ha! Jay Z was not invited to the inauguration because his lyrics are a "lightening rod for criticism". I guess if he'd been a white evangelical preacher with a megachurch and a new book on the shelves, being a lightening rod for criticism would have been a feature and not a bug.
Dave of the Jungle
· 11 months ago
I miss hating George W Bush.
tlsintx
· 11 months ago
Bravo John! Equality is non-negotiable.
Never give up.
triple7s
· 11 months ago
Remember how Bush played the "evilangel" movement during his term. He just said he doesn't even believe the bible . I think Obama is just playin' with these idiots. He's much more cleaver than the fundies. I mean come on, if the chimp can dupe them, imagine what Obama could do.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
I would hope that Obama would like to turn back the clock and choose another "reverend" ( if he has to choose one at all ) rather than that charlatan Warren.
shell
· 11 months ago
"In bad news, no, the Rick Warren controversy has not run its course."
Why is that bad news? Unless Obama announces Warren is out, then keeping it in the news is good. They want it to "run its course." Ho hum -- out of sight, out of mind. IF it was really a serious thing, it would stay front and center.
Remember, the nutcases don't just let something "run its course."
Pyre
· 11 months ago
In other news, Caroline Kennedy announced her support for gay marriage.
Whatever else you may think of her as a potential Senator, this is a gutsy move, since it will increase the intensity of opposition and may hurt her chances of being named to the post.
But apparently she's willing to fly all flags even if that's what sinks her.
Tactically that may be unwise, but points for gallantry.
Jeeze Obama. Why stop with Warren? Why not just go the whole nine yards and invite a KKKlan preacher to share the "honors" as well.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
I'm completely with you on this, John. Obama chose black gospel singer and outspoken anti-gay ex-gay preacher Donnie McClurkin to MC Obama's gospel tour in South Carolina despite the fact that McClurkin had called homosexuality "a curse" and used the event to further malign gays. Now he elevates, honors and legitimizes Rick Warren, an anti-gay preacher who has equated gays with pedophiles, and equates legalizing gay marriage with legitimizing incest, child abuse, and polygamy. And who actively campaigned for Prop H8. It's simply not acceptable. We can not let it go.
LeftCoastOracle
· 11 months ago
I think I've finally worked out some of the angst over this issue. I'm really disappointed that Obama didn't give us a heads up before he did this. Surely he could have talked with a few leaders in the community. I just feel blindsided.
All Comments
a snowy 12 below zero here in the twin cities this morning.
From Wolcott on Frankensense and Mirth:
Franken Is Winning, and Coleman Knows It. Coleman's occupancy of Paul Wellstone's former Senate seat has been an unsightly bunion on the body politic that has cried out for removal.....
That Al Franken, whose jack o' lantern grin spells Halloween horror for K'Lo at NRO, is history's appointed and annointed bunion-remover makes this turn of events all the tastier. Who knew back in the white-heat days of Saturday Night Live--celebrated and memorialized with the scholarly bravura of a ball-turret gunner by Dennis Perrin--that some day we might be addressing Stuart Smalley's creator as "Senator Franken..."
And a Senate whose freshman class includes Al Franken and Caroline Kennedy would send so many righteous souls around the bend they'd meet themselves coming and going.
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2008/1...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/21/22523/...
. That's a fantastic, very moving diary--so very well done. I hope everyone who cares about civil rights and this distressing Warren choice will read it. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing this, and after reading and responding to some on this blog last night who, whether blinded by their own bigotry against gays or not, continue to dismiss the plight of gays in today's world by trying to differentiate between the plight of blacks and slavery and the struggle of gays and lesbians of today claiming we have it so good compared to slavery therefore, we have nothing to bitch about. It isn't a good thing to dismiss the killing of people in the world today because they are gay or perceived to be gay only because one thinks other minorities had it worse and that we can hide our gayness if we only try. We should just shut up and let them insult us because they have weighed this out and it is okay to offend 2 % of the population rather than a higher number of fundamentalists. The debate here last night approached insensitivity and indifference. Your entry brought some well deserved light on this and drew some important parallels and it made my day. Thanks.
You hit the nail squarely on the head here, there is no debate on the issue. Team Obama have demonstrated that they will not act on the moral imperative of our civil rights. People without a moral compass will treat you as poorly as they think they can, which is why there must be a political cost to this.
If there were enough people out there with COURAGE - and cancelled their appearence -Warren could removed from the itinery - Obama would have no choice but to conceed. If the LGBT community does not have the COURAGE to act now - then they should be content with staying under the bus. If I were on the schedule of events, and I were gay, or supported gays, you better believe your bottom dollar I would not make an appearence. Like I said LGBT communty - you think turning your backs is a mechanism of action? If you believe that then I feel sorry for you - nothing short of canceling appearences will make a difference.
If we don't send a strong clear message on this, then we deserve what we get down the road from Obama.
Rick Warren is a bigot, because he groups people under a single heading and discriminates against them in a way that is harmful to them. Obviously Obama would never choose someone with an antisemitic or antiAfricanAmerican component to his world view to speak at his inauguration. Clearly Obama doesn't get it, and he needs to do some personal work. Do I think he is strong and brave enough to acknowledge an error? Absolutely. Do I think he will do something about this problem? Yes I do.
The thing that amazes me is the energy these fundamental megachurches put into this issue. I am a very lapsed Catholic, but I have never heard a priest talk about homosexuality from the pulpit. In fact, I think that the congregation would be shocked and offended if they did so--to say nothing of the open acknowledgement that there are homosexual priests and nuns in the Church and always have been.
Let us hope Obama uses his bully pulpit better in the near future to fix this problem.
Expect to see more of what you're experiencing as more people lose jobs, hopefulness, and are thrust into misery and want. To be frank, if my kids were freezing, I'd like to think I wouldn't steal, but would at least have the courage to ask what I could do to get them heat.
We've had 60+ degree temps in this part of NC for the past several days, but tonight will be 23 and tomorrow night 20...then back up to the 60s again Wed and Thurs...very weird weather patterns.
Warren pick insults struggle for justice
Event calls for black pastor, not gay rights foe
....I, too, am stunned by Obama's decision.
Frankly, it's insulting.
How do you put a civil rights icon like the Rev. Joseph Lowery at the tail end of an event that honors the nation's election of its first African-American president?
The only reason I can think of for Obama to give Warren such an honor is that he is already thinking about re-election.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/1341501,C...
Orphan Annie, as members of Retrieve a Golden of Minnesota (RAGOM) have named the dog, is recovering in the intensive care unit at University of Minnesota Veterinary Hospital after making it through a complicated surgery to repair wounds to the neck and esophagus and the abdomen area. Surgeons removed 20 percent of the dark red 2-year-old retriever's stomach due to damage to tissue and infection. Her medical bills have topped $9,000 and could surpass $12,000 to $15,000, the nonprofit said.
A good samaritan found Annie and brought her to a local Humane Society. The dog was then transferred to the University of Minnesota.
Those interested in contributing can contact RAGOM at www.ragom.org
http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/pets/36392...
From AP:
Toward the end of his speech on Saturday, Warren also talked about singer Melissa Ethridge, who performed earlier in the evening. Warren said the two had a "wonderful conversation" and that he is a huge fan who has all her albums.
The openly lesbian gay rights activist even agreed to sign her Christmas album for him, he said.
This is the life we lead.
Do you think the lying, vile campaign in favor of Proposition 8 including the lies Reverend Warren told about the effects of Proposion 8. And the hateful way he routinely describes gay and lesbian Americans as pedophiles proclaiming the are unworthy and going to Hell contributes to this story in particular and the increased violence against gays in general?
RICHMOND, Calif. — Richmond police are offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of four men who allegedly kidnapped and gang raped a lesbian Saturday night, Lt. Mark Gagan said Friday. …
I do. President-elect Obama isn't being inclusive by welcoming the intolerant, divisive figure who fans the flames of bigotry by his rhetoric. He is giving credibility to a another hate-monger in a reverend's clothing. How very disappointing and disturbing.
This isn't my story it's the story of the nameless lesbian gang-raped by the vigilantes empowered by the likes of Warren and President-elect Obama's singling him out for honor.
Don't let them try to replace the word "civil rights" with "social issues." "Social issues" are "not being invited to a party." Civil Rights include not being able to be married. No job protections, and other institutionalized discrimination!
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If we are to believe that, he must think that he is not wrong and that our feelings regarding this insult, are misguided.
I urge others to do the same.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid...
And/or: Stay at home and organize a VISIBLE protest at home.
My point is: I don't think "not showing up," given the hoards of people who WILL show up, is going to be noticed.
Let's think about this, as a community. We had a very effective protest day on Nov. 15; "Light up the Night" last night was worthwhile as well. What about coordinated national/local protests on Jan. 20, in which people who had no plans of going to Washington anyway could participate (bundled up, in much of the country!)?
Suggestion: A bus motif. As in both (1) back of the bus (by Warren), and (2) being thrown under the bus (by Obama).
How about protestors in Washington (if not everywhere) try to hold/wear plush toy buses? Plush toys will be easier to handle than plastic or metal buses in cold weather. And they aren't heavy, and could be attached to a lanyard or necklace. They would also be a great conversation starter.
John Aravosis, what do you think about using the bus motif? I think it could be very poignant and powerful.
Could someone quickly get mass plush toy buses manufactured, to distribute/sell in Washington and around the country?
I disagree. But I do like your recommendation of not only withdrawing, but having a local protest (or serveral large ones) going on at the same time. That is a good idea.
"Very Least" doesn't cut it. Very least is a cheap shot. Doesn't work. How about changing very least to "best we can do". How's that?
Screw the inauagration. If a STRONG message is not sent to Obama early - then sit back and be railroaded by the religious fruitcakes on the right and, quit complaining. As I have posted on a few threads already, if the LGBT community, and THEIR supporters are going to do nothing more then bitch, then to hell with their bitching. Who in the hell likes whiners?
Change comes from COURAGEOUS ACTS, doing the right thing. That is the only question here. Whether the LGBT community, and their supporters, have the COURAGE to do what is right - and that is to withdraw form the inaugaration all together unless Warren is taken off.
Fight fire with fire. Very least is for cowards (not that I'm saying you're a coward Cowboy, but I think you get my argument).
perfect.
If the LGBT community was really as serious as they sound - then they would do this. If they do not have the COURAGE to act - to fight for their rights - if they are willing to stand by and get rail-roaded - then I can't feel sorry for them. Tough luck, but in this world you have to fight for your rights - you have to stand up for your rights - you have to have the COURAGE to do what is NECESSARY.
You want to make a difference? Then withdraw from the inaugaration, the gay band, you name it. Anyone who supports gays and their rights should withdraw from the lineup. Either that or please, shut the hell up - if you don't mind me being frank - like I said - cowards are a dime a dozen - it takes COURAGE to stand up and do what is right.
The question is: Can the LGBT community and THEIR supporters find that COURAGE? If you cannot, Obama will define it for you.
Earning a spot has nothing to do with standing up and fighting for your rights. Who gives a rat's ass about earning a spot? Hell, anyone with half a brain knows they deserve to be there.
Like I said, if I were part of the inaugaral lineup my withdrawal would already have been submitted - stipulated that once Warren was removed I'd return. But then, I have something called COURAGE. Whether the LGBT community does the same is still an open question.
Send them an email expressing your views.
Oops.
It's one thing to talk with self-aggrandizing hypocrites and haters, but to elevate a pseudo-religious showman to this place of honor is a message I certainly didn't want to hear. Of course I'm not especially enthused about the fact that religion pays any role in this secular civil ceremony, but that's a hobbyhorse to be ridden at another time.
An old, white, straight female atheist who finally was beginning to feel very optimistic about this country, I was disappointed beyond words at this blatant (and totally useless) pandering. I found that all my interest in the inauguration and the potential for progress totally dissipated in a flash.
I'm sure that Warren is cagey enough to craft a lovely speech that will cast him in the best light, but my thoughts are the only light appropriate for this unholy poseur is a strategically placed lightning bolt.
Agreed!!!
Agreed!!
As John said: "There aren't two views on civil rights, unless you mean the right view and the wrong view, the moral view and the immoral view."
Amen.
You are doing important work here, John.
This guy is a total jerk. Obama made a big mistake, bigtime. The only question that remains is will the LGBT community and their supporters, as I said below, do anything about it.
http://www.glaad.org/media/release_detail.php?i...
Why doesn't Rick Warren spend time trying to find out why the divorce rate is close to 50% in this country. Multiple wives, non support of children, wife beating, etc. are far more damaging than two guys or two girls who love each other making a committment to love and respect each other.
As far as those claiming John has an obsession about Warren i believe that is off base. John's obsession which is shared by thousands of others is about fair and just treatment. To elevate this bigot by giving him a world wide pulpit at the inauguration will empower others who believe fear and hatred is the answer. Obama has effectively marginalized the Gay and Lesbian community by endorsing one of the main obstacles standing in the way to legal unions. I don't want to hear how letting him speak exposes him, everyone knows what he stands for, what it does do is send a message that Obama can be swayed by the size of the voting block, well he should also realize that for many of us non-gay and non-lesbian who support their rights we will pause and note well how he handles similar issues in the future. We had 8 years of lies and smirks, I for one don't want 8 years of saying one thing and doing another because it is expedient but not right.
Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate)
Born again Christians
Baptists
Mainline Protestants
Mormons
Catholics
Lutherans
Atheists and Agnostics
The study also found that 90% of the divorces among born-again couples occur after they have been "saved".
Texas has the highest divorce rate. Massachusetts has the lowest.
The South and Midwest have the highest. The North East has the lowest.
The least educated have the highest. The most educated have the lowest.
Never give up.
Why is that bad news? Unless Obama announces Warren is out, then keeping it in the news is good. They want it to "run its course." Ho hum -- out of sight, out of mind. IF it was really a serious thing, it would stay front and center.
Remember, the nutcases don't just let something "run its course."
Whatever else you may think of her as a potential Senator, this is a gutsy move, since it will increase the intensity of opposition and may hurt her chances of being named to the post.
But apparently she's willing to fly all flags even if that's what sinks her.
Tactically that may be unwise, but points for gallantry.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/20/caro...