AMERICAblog: Supreme Court rules that death penalty is "crule and unusual" for man who raped a child
MG1
· 1 year ago
I feel the death penalty is barbaric and should be outlawed for all crimes. It has been proven that it is not a deterrent. Then, of course, the entire prison system is unbelievably stupid and ineffective. It actually creates criminals.
alexa
· 1 year ago
If someone killed me, I'd want them dead. As for a child rapist; life in prison works for me.
zadig
· 1 year ago
That's why we make laws ahead of time, in a cool, reasoned manner, instead of letting the victims of recent crimes determine what penalties should be. The victim of a drunk driver might think that the driver should be repeatedly run over by a truck; our society is, we'd hope, too mature to allow that.
The death penalty is never appropriate. My dim recollection is that studies have shown it doesn't deter crimes; it's not much cheaper (under our current legal system with appeals, endless death row residence, etc.) than incarceration, and it's barbaric (lowers us to the criminal's level). The only purpose it serves is revenge, and that's not what our criminal justice system is for.
staley222
· 1 year ago
I'm against the death penalty enough that I think it should be rare. In practice it's been applied unfairly to the poor and the black and then in other cases it's been used as a prosecutorial weapon to win plea deals, often dubiously.
But I also agree with Evelyn Waugh, who once said in an interview: "Capital punishment is about the nicest thing we can do to the truly wicked."
Also I don't get Kennedy's "well, it seems like there's a consensus rising against it" argument. Is the Court taking votes on these matters?
--KXH
tbhull
· 1 year ago
I am not a death penalty fan, but so long as it is around generally states should be able to decide, within reason, what crimes that state wants to impose the death penalty for. This crime is clearly one that is within reson a state may decide to make punishable by death.
The state legislators are in a far better position to determine the pros and cons of whether to impose the death penalty, not Justice Kennnedy who ponitifcates on the likelihood victims will die if the perpetraator knows they could face death for the crime. That analysis is not one for the courts and the logic appears sopmewhat specious.
My panties are not that much in a wad though, for I would wager the good juries in Louisiana, like those in my state of Texas, has sent many an innocent man to their death and anything that reduces this possibilty is a good thing.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
I have nothing against the Death Penalty in principle. It's effectiveness and implementation is another story.
And lets face it, even in prison, pedophiles and the like aren't safe from the other inmates anyway. If they get caughts, criminals like this aren't long for this world, anyway.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
OT -
Good ol' GW at a press conference with the Phillipine President stated "And I reminded the President that I am reminded of the great talent of the -- of our Philippine-Americans when I eat dinner at the White House." Very nice.
But Kennedy received support from unlikely allies: victim's rights groups. They fear that imposing the death penalty for child rape could encourage child rapists to kill their victims.
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
Most of the time killing the victim would be the best thing for them. Really it depends on the age of the victim. Very young kids can recover from a emotional shock like that. After about age 6 however there life is ruined. You may as well send the child to prison and let the Perp run free.
The best punishment for Child Rape: A mass grave and a 45. slug in the back of there F---ing God Damned head.
Did anybody think that this may cause more privet acts of revenge by family members.
But I guess the Death Penalty would be OK for somebody who did that...
Butch1
· 1 year ago
I bet we can figure out which of the four wanted death. . . "The Four Horseman" Larry, Moe, Curly & Curly Joe Scalia.
skeetz_cypress_tx
· 1 year ago
The death penalty is NEVER appropriate. In EVERY circumstance it is cruel and unusual. It serves no purpose except REVENGE.
jcgraham77
· 1 year ago
You think serial killers should get to live their years out behind bars? Ted Bundy and the rest? These are fatal acts against society in general--we are better of with them being dead.
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
Yes. These people should be allowed to live behind bars, facing their crimes. We are better off as a society showing more mercy than they did. It is the mark of a mature society.
jcgraham77
· 1 year ago
Oh I am all for letting them sit in a cell for life...just not into feeding them while they are there.
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
So, you don't want them to be put to death, you want them to starve to death. That is lots less cruel. What not just go back to Starvation Cages like they used in the middle ages?
jcgraham77
· 1 year ago
If you read my other posts you will see that I am pro death penalty. I was being snarky with that remark.
lilybart
· 1 year ago
If the State says murder is wrong, the State must lead by example.
It really is that simple. If killing is wrong, it is wrong for everyone and the State too.
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
I hope for your sake that one of your wonderful folks behind bars "faceing there crimes" as you put it never escapes and hurts your family or somebody you love.
But I guess that is just fear mongering right?
If Repukes do fear mongering than the Dimacrates do suffer mongering!
Ruslanchik
· 1 year ago
I could not agree more. The death penalty should be completely done away with.
Some people are beyond reformation, but no one deserves to die.
Compassion and Love are the most powerful forces in the universe. Making use of the death penalty only shows our weakness as a society and our fear of each other.
And I'm sure it's just a coincidence that most of the people who are put to death are minorities.
BarrieT
· 1 year ago
Not just revenge - it also prevents recidivism. Guaranteed.
But we do need a sense of proportion. Someone who wants to have sex with a (consenting) fifteen-year old is probably relatively normal. Anyone who wants to have sex with an eight-year-old is a sick bastard who should be killed, because they can never be trusted. Until we can stop conflating such a wide range of offences under terms like rape and paedophilia, maybe we shouldn't kill anybody just yet.
TheOriginalLiz
· 1 year ago
If the child rapist goes to prison, he'll get the death penalty, in a much more cruel and unusual manner.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
That's true, I hadn't thought of that.
BeauBoi
· 1 year ago
Look, the whole reasoning BEHIND the court's decision is being left out here. Yes, child rape is heinous, and awful. But the facts are that children make notoriously unreliable witnesses. They are VERY susceptible to coercion, especially by an adult that they trust as an authority figure (e.g., an angry mother whose husband just left her, or fucked another woman, etc.). Their whole point was that although it is a vicious, awful crime, it does not have the finality of murder - the victim can, through therapy, lead a perfectly normal, healthy life. On top of all that, how bad would it be if the child WAS coerced into making a false accusation, the accused was found guilty and out to death, and then only years later, it's discovered that the whole thing was a lie? Is it justice to put to death an innocent man? Better to err on the side of caution rather than possibly take a life needlessly.
jcgraham77
· 1 year ago
I think in some cases where there is no question of guilt whatsoever (you can't tell these days with our courtsystem) that violent rape of a child is definately punishable by death. It is closure. And I don't care what people say, it has to be a deterent on some level. I am real an eye for an eye on this one...if you don't kill them at least cut their genitals off.
If the rapist is under 30, his first night in prison will be very interesting. He will soon learn what rape is really like. And then within a few weeks, he will get the death penalty anyway.
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
Not likely, they get put in special holding areas. They are kept to themselves and out of the General Population. If they were not they would not likely last more than a day or two. I always find it amusing folks who say they are agents the DP have no problems with the likelyhood of a child raper being tortured and killed by other inmates. How I love Irony.
Hannah
· 1 year ago
The TV show Boston Legal addressed this issue this past season. Except the defendant, who was sentenced to death under Louisiana law, was a mentally handicapped black man who professed his innocence. Alan Shore (James Spader) argued the case for the defendant before the Supreme Court. Shore's argument went towards the defendant's low IQ. But he also used the opportunity to rail against the justices in general, particularly RATS (Roberts, Alito, Thomas, Scalia). It was a thing of beauty and a clip may be available on YouTube... unless it's been pulled.
canuck55
· 1 year ago
The death penalty is barbaric state sanctioned murder. It does not deter future crime. States and countries without the death penalty have lower murder rates than those with it (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did...).
lilybart
· 1 year ago
And why not kill the child witness too, while you are at it. Why leave the witness alive if you are going to get the DP anyway?
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
The death penalty is never appropriate, period. A civilized society incarcerates its worst criminals, and leaves them there. It does not practice retributive justice.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
I live in Louisiana. I remember when our legislator (not mine, they never care what I think) first voted on this law a couple of years ago. I knew it would eventually wind up at the Supreme Court. I see it has but haven't been following. I hate issues like this but in every instance, I always side with life. The SCOTUS made the right decision.
Now, here in Louisiana, we have fucking Creationism being taught again so that's going to be headed to the courts. Waste of the people's money and we're a poor state but on and on it goes.
BeauBoi
· 1 year ago
Where in LA are u?
kh7463
· 1 year ago
I couldn't read the article because the headline makes me sick.
dad
· 1 year ago
not sure mccain changes everything - but here, it is true.
to me a rape of a child is taking a life. at very least taking a childhood and dramatically altering a life.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
Seriously, we've been battling Creationism in public schools since 1980 here in Louisiana and now we're having to again. Can you believe this shit? Gah damn I'm so sick of the christianists always dividing people. I used to love this state and its people. Now I want nothing to do with them.
Milli
· 1 year ago
Can't agree with the death penalty. It only gives us an illusion of comfort and justice. We don't even care if we accidentally kill the wrong person. We just say "oops" and move to the next guy. It certainly doesn't act as a deterrent - a lot of these people have serious mental illnesses who think nothing of the consequences of their actions. Why don't we lock these guys up and figure out what makes their brains go haywire? More useful to us and future victims of similar crimes than just dumping these guys into the ground. Gotta know your enemy.
dcredhead
· 1 year ago
I doon't know how I feel about this. One of my closest girlfriends was raped -- repeatedly -- as a young, young child. Sometimes I think it would have been better for her soul if the guy had killed her. Her soul is forever tarnished.
If you've ever known anyone who has been a victim of a sex crime.... and lets face it, the statistics are pretty much true. I can survey my girlfriends and just tick off the numbers. Here's one raped by a relative, one date raped in college, one molested by her step father.... your views on the punishment of sex crimes change. I don't necessarily think that the death penalty would cure my friends' traume, but I need to think there is some justice in the world. While her perpetrator lives a daily life, she is in a prison herself. He'll get out. She never will.
CobaltBlue
· 1 year ago
It's very difficult for me to identify with and understand the reasoning of those four supreme court justices who believe, that a penalty of death, is proportional to a rape of a child, as horrendous and vicious as that crime is.
Their thought process and way of thinking gives me a very creepy feeling and calls to mind murky images of Taliban like extremism. Could executing someone for child rape, when no murder is committed, really be part of American justice? What else do these four justices favor and find reasonable and proportional: public amputations for robbery....executions for prostitution???
A sentence of life without parole IS proportional to the crime and I would like to believe that most Americans find it more reasonable and therefore agree with the majority vote.
jcgraham77
· 1 year ago
Just a question? Where do you stand on abortion?
lilybart
· 1 year ago
I hope the DP would apply to FAMILY members, including fathers because most child rape is incest, isn't it?
Would they execute the father too? Or just stranger rape?
Mini Clover
· 1 year ago
Personally I think the Death Penalty is cruel in all circumstances. Plus it's an easy way out for the criminal vs. having to languish for the rest of their lives thinking about what they have done. In the case of this child rapist he's going to have a much harder time once his fellow prisoners find out anyway.
steve303
· 1 year ago
I have very mixed feelings about the death penalty: In one sense it may serve as some necessary cathartic release for society, but it certainly doesn't operate as any kind of deterrent. At the same time, I don't think it's a particularly effective form of punishment. Personally, I would rather be executed than to spend the next 40 years in prison.
The overall problem, of course, is once you expand the DP to non-lethal crimes it may become applicable to any crime which lawmakers judge as heinous -- which could include property crimes. Child (sexual) abuse is a horrendous crime, and there really is no suitable punishment. We simply need to accept that absolute justice is elusive
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
Child rape. If the Supreme Court is not willing to do our children justice then there is no justice left in the world.
If we are not going to let them be killed we need an island we can dump them all on. The rules are simple. You go there and that is your life... as long as it lasts. Food is simple anybody you can catch kill and eat.
KISSman
· 1 year ago
I only support the death penalty in murder circumstances and only in those circumstances where we are 100% sure that the crime was committed by the person in question.
If we pass a law where someone gets death for a non-death crime, more laws and challenges could forumulate due to such a decision and, personally, I think that would be a dangerous road to head down.
jr
· 1 year ago
"Carol McCain should get the death penalty for not being pretty anymore"-John McCain
Wisterley
· 1 year ago
The death penalty is never appropriate. Justice isn't revenge. Or retribution. I think we should all be asking ourselves why it is that we're such an extraordinarily violent society. We have more people in prison per capita than any other western country. By far. Norway doesn't impose sentences longer than 21 years. For anything. I find it appalling that people here should be advocating the death penalty in the terms they are. That goes for the original post by Mr. Aravosis, too. And please, I don't want to hear lectures about saving the children. If we really cared about children we'd give them free medical care and education. We'd let their parents work less hours for more pay so they could stay home more. We'd give paid maternity leave. But we don't. Because we don't really care about children we only care about appearing to care. And bragging about who is the more savage on internet boards where talk is cheap.
interlude
· 1 year ago
i wholeheartedly agree. in my research on violence in American society i have discovered that there are 4 nations that execute males for crimes committed in childhood. Iran, Somalia, Iraq under Saddam, and the USA. (good company we keep, hunh?) and guess what? Texas, Virginia, and Oklahoma all execute more males in thet category that the other three nations on the list.
KerrynowCampau
· 1 year ago
Wow, Wisterley! Great post. Great points.
The death penalty is an out dated punishment. We need to evolve beyond using it. Life without parole is a better, cheaper punishment. And if a mistake is made in convicting someone, they are still alive.
I was pretty surprised to find that some States use it for non murder offenses.
interlude
· 1 year ago
i oppose the death penalty in ALL cases...however, it seems this court is at least consistant, in that it favors the DP for crimes resulting in death, but opposes it for non-lethal crimes. still, we don't need McCain appointing judges!
Mikki --SE Pennsylvania
· 1 year ago
If the "Supreme" Court of the US had looked for cases that would allow them to stick a finger again into the eye of the decent American public, they could not have found a better pair than rejecting the richly deserved Death for Child Rapists and the shameful reduction of the penalties in the Exxon Valdiz case. I will say upfront I am in favor of the death penalty in cases of muder and child rape. I will also upfront call anyone a liar who claims that if a family member of theirs was mudered and it was clear who did the deed, they would not want that person executed. This humbug about "cruel and unusual" means of execution is a sad and lily-livered excuse for not facing the issue head on. It has become increasing clear to me that these pusilanimous slime-bags we dignify as supreme court justices began to show their true colors when they threw the 2000 election to George "Shit-for-brains" Bush. We hav e seen the decline of the Department of Justice during this failed, corrupt, and incompetent administration especially under Gonzalez and now Mulcahey. Yes, I am aware that many wrongly convicted persons are on death rows all ocver the country. But in these cases its has become clear that we need to clean the Augean stables of the lazy and corrupt police and the careless and disinterested lawyers who have allowed these travesties of justice to continue. Judges too in some cases, not liking to have to admit mistakes, aree equally at fault and deserve greater blame. It is a further travesty of justice that there are laws making it a capital offense to kill a police person, or a federal employee and I submit there are none of these who are any better than a plain citizen, no worse but no better. But the members of the Supereme Court, that they have no shame at revealing themselves to be so in the clutches and the pay of the corrupt republican administration and the slimy corporations such as Exxon who I beleve had the largest amount of profits of any corporation: that is a scandal! In the same way that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and all the cronies in this failed administration, possibly all elected republicons, need to be brought to the justice of the gallows and hanged for treason, so we need to "clear the court" and make the justices walk the scaffold steps and possibly plead their cases before an even higher court than their own. In this world at this time, they are a scandal and an embarassment to what the United States of America has long stood for. Little men and women under the illusion that they are important! Sad failures in the human race! Corrupt and dishonest from A to Z.
Captain_America
· 1 year ago
The death penalty is ridiculous. It has been proven time and time again to be dangerous to justice because innocent people can be swept up and killed by our country in the name of justice. I'm sure the right wingers of our great land will argue "Hey! I'd prefer not to support child rapists, would you?" This issue is much more complex. Child rapists should be punished, period. Lock them away in prison. Throw away the key. But kill them? For an advanced society we are truly barbaric still when it comes to the justice system. It is a vengeful act that truly solves nothing. We tell ourselves we are justified. Our country can kill murderers. But how do we ask God for forgiveness for killing the innocent? And there ARE innocent. Killing rapists starts sounding more and more like we are the Taliban -- which we have been for the past 7 years, a kind of Taliban of Christianity. We tell ourselves that we fight for freedom. We can tell ourselves anything we want to feel good about what our country does, but the deliberate killing of human beings who could otherwise be punished by imprisonment is still incredibly savage -- and the rest of the industrialized world agrees.
BigTex
· 1 year ago
As someone who comes from a state (Texas) where 33 wrongfully convicted prisoners (and counting) have been freed since 2001, I'm glad that the Supreme Court has done away with the death penalty for child rape. I think it should be done away with for all cases - putting aside the very real and very substantial risk of wrongful conviction, it should not be the business of government at any level to kill people in the absence of a clear and present danger to human life. A convicted killer (or other criminal) who has been locked up does not constitute a danger to human life because they're in jail, so there is no need to kill them and thus no legitimate justification for doing so.
Independent
· 1 year ago
Even Obama disagrees with this asinine ruling.........
CHICAGO (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama said Wednesday he disagrees with the Supreme Court's decision outlawing executions of people who rape children, a crime he said states have the right to consider for capital punishment. "I have said repeatedly that I think that the death penalty should be applied in very narrow circumstances for the most egregious of crimes," Obama said at a news conference. "I think that the rape of a small child, 6 or 8 years old, is a heinous crime and if a state makes a decision that under narrow, limited, well-defined circumstances the death penalty is at least potentially applicable, that that does not violate our Constitution."
All Comments
As for a child rapist; life in prison works for me.
The death penalty is never appropriate. My dim recollection is that studies have shown it doesn't deter crimes; it's not much cheaper (under our current legal system with appeals, endless death row residence, etc.) than incarceration, and it's barbaric (lowers us to the criminal's level). The only purpose it serves is revenge, and that's not what our criminal justice system is for.
But I also agree with Evelyn Waugh, who once said in an interview: "Capital punishment is about the nicest thing we can do to the truly wicked."
Also I don't get Kennedy's "well, it seems like there's a consensus rising against it" argument. Is the Court taking votes on these matters?
--KXH
The state legislators are in a far better position to determine the pros and cons of whether to impose the death penalty, not Justice Kennnedy who ponitifcates on the likelihood victims will die if the perpetraator knows they could face death for the crime. That analysis is not one for the courts and the logic appears sopmewhat specious.
My panties are not that much in a wad though, for I would wager the good juries in Louisiana, like those in my state of Texas, has sent many an innocent man to their death and anything that reduces this possibilty is a good thing.
And lets face it, even in prison, pedophiles and the like aren't safe from the other inmates anyway. If they get caughts, criminals like this aren't long for this world, anyway.
Good ol' GW at a press conference with the Phillipine President stated "And I reminded the President that I am reminded of the great talent of the -- of our Philippine-Americans when I eat dinner at the White House." Very nice.
Could our President be more ignorant?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/24/bush-t...
But Kennedy received support from unlikely allies: victim's rights groups. They fear that imposing the death penalty for child rape could encourage child rapists to kill their victims.
The best punishment for Child Rape: A mass grave and a 45. slug in the back of there F---ing God Damned head.
Did anybody think that this may cause more privet acts of revenge by family members.
But I guess the Death Penalty would be OK for somebody who did that...
Larry, Moe, Curly & Curly Joe Scalia.
It serves no purpose except REVENGE.
It really is that simple.
If killing is wrong, it is wrong for everyone and the State too.
But I guess that is just fear mongering right?
If Repukes do fear mongering than the Dimacrates do suffer mongering!
Some people are beyond reformation, but no one deserves to die.
Compassion and Love are the most powerful forces in the universe. Making use of the death penalty only shows our weakness as a society and our fear of each other.
And I'm sure it's just a coincidence that most of the people who are put to death are minorities.
But we do need a sense of proportion. Someone who wants to have sex with a (consenting) fifteen-year old is probably relatively normal. Anyone who wants to have sex with an eight-year-old is a sick bastard who should be killed, because they can never be trusted. Until we can stop conflating such a wide range of offences under terms like rape and paedophilia, maybe we shouldn't kill anybody just yet.
Airblush latest: Northrop-Gruman defends right to keep tanker contract
I always find it amusing folks who say they are agents the DP have no problems with the likelyhood of a child raper being tortured and killed by other inmates.
How I love Irony.
Now, here in Louisiana, we have fucking Creationism being taught again so that's going to be headed to the courts. Waste of the people's money and we're a poor state but on and on it goes.
to me a rape of a child is taking a life. at very least taking a childhood and dramatically altering a life.
If you've ever known anyone who has been a victim of a sex crime.... and lets face it, the statistics are pretty much true. I can survey my girlfriends and just tick off the numbers. Here's one raped by a relative, one date raped in college, one molested by her step father.... your views on the punishment of sex crimes change. I don't necessarily think that the death penalty would cure my friends' traume, but I need to think there is some justice in the world. While her perpetrator lives a daily life, she is in a prison herself. He'll get out. She never will.
Their thought process and way of thinking gives me a very creepy feeling and calls to mind murky images of Taliban like extremism. Could executing someone for child rape, when no murder is committed, really be part of American justice? What else do these four justices favor and find reasonable and proportional: public amputations for robbery....executions for prostitution???
A sentence of life without parole IS proportional to the crime and I would like to believe that most Americans find it more reasonable and therefore agree with the majority vote.
Would they execute the father too?
Or just stranger rape?
The overall problem, of course, is once you expand the DP to non-lethal crimes it may become applicable to any crime which lawmakers judge as heinous -- which could include property crimes. Child (sexual) abuse is a horrendous crime, and there really is no suitable punishment. We simply need to accept that absolute justice is elusive
If we are not going to let them be killed we need an island we can dump them all on. The rules are simple. You go there and that is your life... as long as it lasts. Food is simple anybody you can catch kill and eat.
If we pass a law where someone gets death for a non-death crime, more laws and challenges could forumulate due to such a decision and, personally, I think that would be a dangerous road to head down.
and guess what? Texas, Virginia, and Oklahoma all execute more males in thet category that the other three nations on the list.
The death penalty is an out dated punishment. We need to evolve beyond using it. Life without parole is a better, cheaper punishment. And if a mistake is made in convicting someone, they are still alive.
I was pretty surprised to find that some States use it for non murder offenses.
still, we don't need McCain appointing judges!
It has become increasing clear to me that these pusilanimous slime-bags we dignify as supreme court justices began to show their true colors when they threw the 2000 election to George "Shit-for-brains" Bush. We hav e seen the decline of the Department of Justice during this failed, corrupt, and incompetent administration especially under Gonzalez and now Mulcahey.
Yes, I am aware that many wrongly convicted persons are on death rows all ocver the country. But in these cases its has become clear that we need to clean the Augean stables of the lazy and corrupt police and the careless and disinterested lawyers who have allowed these travesties of justice to continue. Judges too in some cases, not liking to have to admit mistakes, aree equally at fault and deserve greater blame. It is a further travesty of justice that there are laws making it a capital offense to kill a police person, or a federal employee and I submit there are none of these who are any better than a plain citizen, no worse but no better.
But the members of the Supereme Court, that they have no shame at revealing themselves to be so in the clutches and the pay of the corrupt republican administration and the slimy corporations such as Exxon who I beleve had the largest amount of profits of any corporation: that is a scandal!
In the same way that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and all the cronies in this failed administration, possibly all elected republicons, need to be brought to the justice of the gallows and hanged for treason, so we need to "clear the court" and make the justices walk the scaffold steps and possibly plead their cases before an even higher court than their own. In this world at this time, they are a scandal and an embarassment to what the United States of America has long stood for. Little men and women under the illusion that they are important! Sad failures in the human race! Corrupt and dishonest from A to Z.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91HGKP...
CHICAGO (AP) - Democrat Barack Obama said Wednesday he disagrees with the Supreme Court's decision outlawing executions of people who rape children, a crime he said states have the right to consider for capital punishment.
"I have said repeatedly that I think that the death penalty should be applied in very narrow circumstances for the most egregious of crimes," Obama said at a news conference. "I think that the rape of a small child, 6 or 8 years old, is a heinous crime and if a state makes a decision that under narrow, limited, well-defined circumstances the death penalty is at least potentially applicable, that that does not violate our Constitution."