DISQUS

Twila · 12 months ago

Remember how they tried to avoid the appearance of spearheading the anti-gay marriage movement? They went to the trouble of involving the Catholics so they could use them for cover. Oops. Didn't work. So now their efforts against gay people's rights are shining a light on their own history of polygamy and repression of women, and they can no longer portray themselves as victims of oppression. Just what they didn't want to happen. I'd say they shot themselves in the foot.

Glenn I · 12 months ago

Didn't this get them just what they wanted -- the hero worship of the evangelicals?

RitornaVincitor · 12 months ago

Did it? Not sure. I always thought the Evangelicals despise Mormons. I doubt that has changed much. One way or the other Prop 8 will be overturned, either by the courts or by the next vote. But the Mormons in my opinion have done their image some serious damage. Plus they have reminded everyone of their own shady history with marriage. People hate hypocrisy. And if California discovers that they improperly hid some of their support for Prop 8, that won't help them either.

MaudGonne · 12 months ago

November 29, 2008
Editorial
The Prop 8 Campaign Money

California’s fair-elections commission is investigating a complaint against the Mormon Church’s role in campaigning for Proposition 8, which made marriage illegal between people of the same sex. Based on the facts that have come out so far, the state is right to look into whether the church broke state laws by failing to report campaign-related expenditures.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/opinion/29sat...

Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas · 12 months ago

Well the Brigham Youngins have fucked with the wrong faggots this time. Plenty of gay and Lesbian lawyers in CA who will push this nasty case forward. Just like Al Capone, go after the tax shit. They've played too much of a hand in politics and they will probably get some heavy fines or even better lose their tax status. Works for me.

(In the meantime my husband and I will continue to fuck those Mormon cutie missionaries when they come to call. A few nice erotic sketches on our walls usually does the trick. They praise their Jeebus and they love to ride cock we've found but they often cum to fast since they are so horny.)

Ben Dover · 12 months ago

You are so right. I've found that NOTHING gets them out of their magic underwear faster than a hardcore Falcon XXX video playing loudly on the DVD player. Good grief, they almost fight each other while racing for bottom. I personally enjoy the anointing ceremony where they are inducted into "sins of the flesh."
I do at least take a pamphlet from them as a sign of my goodwill.

Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas · 12 months ago

I cannot count how many of these young Mormon missionaries in white shirts
and black trousers we've had. Some have been excellent tops although most
have had their heels in the air so fast, I could barely wrap up. When I was
single, ten years ago, two of them showed up at my door one day. I was off
for the summer. I think they finally left forty eight hours later...totally
drained. horny lil fuckers. I often wonder what they do for mansex now that
they are married with wives and kiddies and wearing magic undies out in Salt
Lake.

ANON · 12 months ago

You really do all us queers proud.

dp · 12 months ago

What's really strange about this is that gay marriage seems to me to be MUCH more reconcilable with Christianity than Mormonism is.

RitornaVincitor · 12 months ago

Next time one of them comes knocking on my door I'll say, "Oh, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? Isn't that a hate group?"

frank · 12 months ago

They where promised 72 virgin little girls if they did the work for the dirty old boys club

AdmNaismith · 12 months ago

The only positive thing to come out of the passing of (H)8 in CA was that all the minority groups woke up to the fact that the Constitution in CA is too easy to change against one group or another (witness all the minority legal groups asking the Supremes here to repeal the thing).
How deeply and how long that lesson is learned is another thing.
The other good thing is the possible mobilization of the Gay Community a la the 70s/80s.

Saw 'Milk' last night. The story builds to the vote on the Briggs Initiative (to fire gay teachers in CA and their supporters). In 30 years, the stupid arguments the christianists use haven't changed (yet people still believe them). There is footage of Anita Bryant (R- Cunt) giving a speech about 'the threat of the homosexuals'. But all you have to do is change the word 'homosexual' to 'Mormon' or 'Pope' to see where the real danger lies.

Now it looks like NY legislators is going to reneg on their promise to equalize marriage in NY.

Indigo · 12 months ago

Mormon family values pervade the new vampire teenie-bopper chick-flick, "Twilight." The story is all about how Ken the Vampire respects Mormon girls.

It seems the author is a Mormon "housewife' who wants to teach Mormon family values like resepct and protection of the delicate and codependent Mormon Barbie and abstinence from sex before marriage.

Most likely, gay blood probably sickens Mormon vampires and causes them to explode into a horrible icky mess. We should ask the Temple Elders for a ruling . . . can a Mormon vampire drink gay blood without committing a sin?

MaudGonne · 12 months ago

But Prop 8 opponents did not recognize the Wirthlin name. Steve Smith, campaign manager for No on 8, told the Bay Area Reporter that the campaign learned of the Wirthlin’s familial link to the church’s strategy, "either very late in the campaign or just after November 4," leaving no time for the campaign to issue a news release or other materials that might have mitigated the Wirthlin’s claims.

Robb and Robin Wirthlin, as reported by the Bay Area Reporter October 23, were no small part of the success of the Prop 8 campaign. Smith, while speaking to Stonewall Democrats two weeks ago, said the Wirthlin campaign was "effective," and the No on 8 coalition spent the last weeks of the campaign fighting the issue of children being taught about same-sex marriage in public elementary schools.

Holes in their story
Holes began to emerge in the Wirthlins story almost immediately after they were first introduced by the Yes on 8 campaign. Parents in the Lexington School District in Massachusetts disputed many of the Wirthlins claims to the B.A.R., pointing out that when the Wirthlins moved into the district they were already involved with two groups seeking to ban same-sex marriage. One of those groups, MassResistance, run by Brian Camenker, has been called an "anti-gay hate group" by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=...

Gary SF · 12 months ago

What none of the supporters of prop 8 seem to understand is that, to many of us, it was just another gay bashing, but one that pushed us to react. Too bad for the Mormons.

RainbowPhoenix · 12 months ago

Many of them do understand it. They're just lying out their asses to keep everyone else from figuring it out.

MaudGonne · 12 months ago

the third largest private donor – at a whopping $900,000 – has slipped below the media's radar. His name is Howard F. Ahmanson (former owner of Washington Mutual bank), a recluse. He's a recluse because he's a Dominionist and they like to operate under the radar screen. In a 1985 interview with the Orange County Register he stated, “My goal is the total integration of biblical law into our lives.” The proponents of Prop 8 have come up with an interesting spin on their oppressive activity. They are not targeting gays, they are protecting marriage. They have targeted gays for discrimination by denying them – and only them – the right to marry based on Biblical law, not on secular law.

Ahmanson, along with another major contributor – Elsa Broekhuizen, whose son is the founder of the controversial and less-than-Christian Blackwater mercenary firm – has found common ground with the Roman Catholic and Mormon churches. Strange bedfellows indeed! So intent were they to deny us the right to marry that the Mormon Church raised millions of dollars and conducted phone banking from Utah, interfering in the democratic process of another state. The fact that the Roman Catholic archbishop from San Francisco approached the Mormon Church for help in denying the civil rights of one group of people places them in collusion. The Mormon Church invested roughly $20 million, while the Knights of Columbus and the US Conference of Catholic Bishops invested $1.25 million and $200,000 respectively. This attempt to subvert the California State Constitution should result in the revocation of their non-tax status.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-greatest-c...

Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas · 12 months ago

....the right to marry based on Biblical law, not on secular law.....okay fine...let's all live by Biblical Law as in Leviticus. If this asshole's wife entered church during her period, we shall stone her to death...if he wore cotton and wool at the same time, we shall stone him to death...if his kids ever were misbehaving, well they too shall be stoned to death...if his local farmer planted the same crop in the same field two years in a row, then he will be stoned to death...if this guy ate shrimp, pork, or fish with no scales...yup...line em up and stone them to death. Leviticus has some really great punishments for many things ordinary people do every day. Why is it that these idiots only target on Leviticus 20. Simple answer: because white trash need a victim to hate...blacks are out so fags and dykes are all that are left.

hawkseye · 12 months ago

Thanks for saying this.

Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas · 12 months ago

You know it's one thing to be on the DL and just keep your mouth shut about
gay rights. It's entirely another to be on the DL and then go out and work
against gay rights...while keeping the lil wife at home with the kiddies and
getting fucked by other men on the sly.

RitornaVincitor · 12 months ago

I'm afraid I must, ever so reluctantly, disagree with you, BQinD. I believe the local farmer is allowed to plant the same crop in the same field two years in a row. The writers of Leviticus would never be so ridiculous or petty as to punish something that trivial. Certainly not. It is planting two different crops in the same field at the same time that merits stoning to death. And technically the asshole's wife should not be entering church at any time of the month, because she is after all only a woman. She should be home with his other wives pounding dried up grain into a scratchy flour. And if she must leave the house to go fetch water for her lord and master during her monthly cycle, she must shout out "Unclean... unclean!" It's probably best that she remain indoors and out of sight, because if she is caught in adultery she must be stoned, unless of course she has an affair with an inlaw. In that case she must be burned to death. But at least her husband can recoup some of the money he spent on fire wood by selling her daughters into slavery. Both Leviticus and Exodus are very clear about that. I'm sure they still practice all this in Utah. They're very family oriented.

Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas · 12 months ago

ROFLMAOPMP....brilliant! Sorry I had the crop shit wrong.

RitornaVincitor · 11 months ago

Oh, please, don't apologize for not keeping up on Leviticus. I don't know a single person, Christian or otherwise, that does. In my lifetime I've never heard a single menstruating woman shouting "Unclean.... Unclean...." as she walks down the street. Well, yes, come to think of it I did hear it once, but he wasn't a real woman. And I think he'd been stoned many times.

Webster · 12 months ago

You forgot our Focus on the Family friends, to the tune of over $630,000.

anastasiabeaverhausen · 12 months ago

I wonder if this is the AFA saying a genuine "thank you" to the Mormons, or the AFA pointing a big "blame them" finger at the Mormons.

From my evangelical background I know that the AFA considers the Mormons as damned as the gays...maybe even worse, since they f---ed with the word of God.

Trust me, if this little Proposition happens to take the Mormons down a notch or two, no one will be more pleased than the AFA.

RainbowPhoenix · 12 months ago

A little from column A, a little from column B.

RitornaVincitor · 12 months ago

I think Prop 8 did take the Mormons down a notch or two. We read that way back in the planning stages the Mormons were concerned that they would look like they were the ones spearheading the anti-gay marriage fight, so they tried (successfully) to involve the Catholics. But the Mormons are seen as most closely associated with Prop H8. It also has drawn lots of attention to the hypocrisy of their history of polygamy and repression of women. It also negates their knee-jerk defense that they are being victimized by the Prop 8 backlash, because it's hard to come off as a victim when you are aggressively going after a minority group's rights. And then there is the investigation into their campaign contributions that were far more extensive than reported as required by law. So they have come across as mean, hypocritical and sneaky. And in the end it won't have been worth it, because Prop 8 will eventually be overturned one way or the other. Not a wise move on their part at all.

postdamnit · 12 months ago

All of this is true. The Mormon's this and the Black's that, but the real reason for the passing of Prop 8 was a lack of a properly managed coordinated effort upon the part of the gay community. We can point fingers all we want but the so-called leadership against this was pathetic and amateurish. And for that we have only ourselves to blame.

I also don't think that this is going to be overturned by the SC. We will have to get an initiative on the 2010 ballot repealing this and we will have to do a hell of a better job that time.

FYI less than 2/3 of eligible voters turned out in Los Angeles and San Francisco. I have also read that many gays did not bother to show up at the poles. In West Hollywood a couple of days before the elections, there was a rally against Prop 8 and fewer than 500 people showed up.

As Pogo said: "We have met the enemy and they are us".

RitornaVincitor · 12 months ago

I still think we should blame the success of Prop 8 on the people who voted for it.

SkippyFlipjack · 12 months ago

I agree entirely.

Now can we stop trying to make ourselves feel better by working hard to get Yes on 8 donors fired from their jobs?

ANON · 12 months ago

Finally some intelligent comments

ChrisSF · 12 months ago

Much of this is true, but it doesn't mean that the supporters of 8 get a free pass. We have to do both: analyze why we lost the battle, and use that knowledge to win the war.

Georganne · 12 months ago

Too many gays are too wrapped up in their own self-centered vapidity and endless quest for their next lay to get out and kick ass politically through their activism.

Indigo · 12 months ago

Speaking of vapid, I just know you loved "Twilight."

Georganne · 12 months ago

Now there you go, just because I criticize lame assed gay twits who couldn't care less about lifting a finger about their own and other's civil rights, you accuse me of being Mormon. Grow up a little already. Reminds me of those valuable lost years in the early '80s when the info was already out there about AIDS contagion, but lame assed gays in SF kept defending the deadly status quo in the baths.

Indigo · 12 months ago

Wouldn't you be happier if you registered like a real blogger?

Georganne · 12 months ago

Pointless. The ideas and positions remain the same.

ANON · 12 months ago

Right on Georganne.

You rock!!!!!!!!!

IAmATVJunkie · 12 months ago

What is too many?

And, before you make blanket statements about a group, what group do you belong to?

RitornaVincitor · 12 months ago

"self-centered vapidity", "endless quest for their next lay", "lame assed qay twits". No, you don't sound Mormon at all. They would never use the word "ass".

John M · 12 months ago

~Mormon Church in Germany went along with Hitler's Nazi Regime~

Concerned members of the LDS Church in Germany asked then-president Heber J. Grant what they should do about Hitler's rise in power. He told them not to make waves but rather to obey the 12th Article of Faith, which required them to honor and sustain their elected leaders.

http://www.slmetro.com/2004/1/letters.shtml

Dec 9,1933 - Church Section article "Mormonism in The New Germany,"
enthusiastically emphasizes parallels "between the LDS Church and some of the ideas and policies of the National Socialists."

First, Nazis have introduced "Fast Sunday."

Second, "it is a very well known fact that Hitler observes a form of
living which Mormons term the Word of Wisdom.

Finally, due to the importance given to the racial question by Nazis and
the almost necessity of proving that one's grandmother was not Jewess,
there no longer is resistance against genealogical research by German
Mormons who now have received letters of encouragement complimenting them for their patriotism.

From the research of church historian Michael C. Quinn in 'The Mormon
Hierarchy : Extensions of Power':
http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon208.htm

As Hitler's armies swept Europe and headed toward Russia, Mormon Church leader, J.Reuben Clark raised nary an objection. [...]

Clark remained steadfast in his insistence that America stay out of the
European conflict. And once America was involved, he extended this to a
conviction that the church should not be perceived as being supportive
of the war.

He declined requests to use the Tabernacle and the choir as backdrops
for patriotic enterprises, suggesting they use the Capitol building
instead.

He likewise opposed American involvement in the United Nations, seeing
this institution as threatening the sovereignty of the United States.

A review of 'Elder Statesman: A Biography of J. Reuben Clark' by D.
Michael Quinn: http://www.signaturebooks.com/reviews/elderstat...

Mormon Missionaries in Nazi Germany were not allowed to proselytize. Instead, they taught English lessons and formed baseball and basketball teams.

Photo of LDS and Hitler Youth baseball team in Meridian Magazine:
Gather: http://www.meridianmagazine.com/images/seibold/...

In photo: Harold Kratzer, Fred Duehlmeier, Darrell Robins, Norman Seibold (fourth from left), Wilford Wegener, Claytor Larsen, and Frank Swallow have just finished playing baseball with two boys who are wearing Hitler's Youth uniforms. It was 1939.

hrh · 12 months ago

The Ratzinger brothers, mebbe?

cowboyneok · 12 months ago

The Mormons were supportive of the Nazis? Doesn't surprise me. They are both fascist organizations.

sheckums · 12 months ago

Really? Mormons are Nazis? Wow, I can't believe people are replying to this affirmatively.
This is our 12th article of faith:

"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." As far as I know, there's no mention of any loyalty to Hitler. You're going to trust a bitter ex-Mormon's hunches for your source of knowledge about people who are active in the Mormon church today?
I know it sounds kind of crazy to have a church tell you to obey the law and follow your leaders, but I guess I just enjoy being a crazy Mormon.

Webster · 12 months ago

"Sustaining the law?" How does that fit with Mormons funding Proposition 8 which took away the rights, that were in the law?

You're one crazy Mormon all right.

Webster · 12 months ago

And for a revelatory read, there's always Same-Sex Dynamics Among Nineteenth-Century Americans: A Mormon Example by D. Michael Quinn, former head of the History Department at BYU and published by the University of Illinois Press. A book the Mormon Church tried to squelch by threatening law-suits. As the University didn't want a legal fight, some footnotes were removed and a couple of photographs--but the truth is still there. It seems Mormons have quite a homoerotic past after all.

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

From Wikipedia under D. Michael Quinn: "The Church’s law of chastity forbids extramarital sex, which would include all forms of sexual activity (gay or straight) outside of marriage. " Well, that's convenient. So for straights to legally have sex they need to be married (multiple times apparently) and to keep gays from having sex they aren't allowed to get married.

Or this strange little dichotomy: "In 1992, when the World Health Organization removed homosexuality from the International Classification of Diseases as a mental illness,[13] the church produced Understanding and Helping Those With Homosexual Problems,[14] which removed all reference to homosexuality as a disease. The church frequently references contemporary scientific research, but explains that should not be taken as a position on "scientific questions", such as the cause of homosexuality.[2}" So the WHO says it's not a disease and much earlier the American Psychiatric Association in the 1970s said it wasn't a disease; still with all this scientific information out there, the Mormons (and every conservative religion) has to hold on to their gut feelings (you know, their concept of God) and bury their collective heads in the sand because they can't handle the truth. Truth has reason and facts to back it up, faith doesn't -- it's just a gut feeling. The Book of Mormon, the Bible, and the Koran are just diaries of feelings and experiences and rationalizations without any reasonableness or fact to back it up. To rely on them as fact is ridiculous.

Webster · 12 months ago

True--their collective heads are buried somewhere--"in the sand" is a nice way to euphemistically put it.

Older_Wiser · 12 months ago

Whaddaya mean? The Mormons ARE fascists...they can't do anything without consulting the higher ups who demand total fealty. All religions are authoritarian and they can't deny it. Hey, I did my time in the catholic church...but luckily for only 8 years.

Chrissy · 12 months ago

My view is that the strange bedfellows need to return to infighting.

IAmATVJunkie · 12 months ago

"The LDS Church, you know them as the Mormons. Buying their way into the 2012 Republican Nomination for President since Election Day 2008."

"Now with extra magic underwear!"

pdxprobert · 12 months ago

This is a constitutional matter... the 1st amendment is for everyone... especially when religious institutions make it their business to enshrine prejudice and unequal treatment into law.... and don't ever forget how homosexuals came to be called faggots... the root word fag means a burning stick... it was the fate of homosexuals to be tied up and placed in the kindling of witches tied to a stake, waiting to be burned to death... another example of christian based prejudice and hatred enshrined into the laws of the land.....

Scy · 12 months ago

Oh we will keep pounding the Mormon hate group until . . .hmm . . . forever.

PAY LAY ALE

Queer Canuck · 12 months ago

No, no, no!

PAY LAY NON-ALCOHOLIC BEER :-)

Scy · 12 months ago

HAHAHA Silly me. You're right.

ANON · 12 months ago

Why do so many gays have such a drinking problem?

Queer Canuck · 12 months ago

Non sequitur. These comments have nothing to do with gays.

"PAY LAY ALE" are words from the Mormon endowment ceremony, supposedly in the "Adamic" language spoken by Adam and Eve. I'm told these words are secret, and speaking them to a Mormon outside the temple is a big no-no. Whatever.

The reference to non-alcoholic beer concerns the Mormon practice of abstaining from alcohol and has nothing to do with gays. It is a play on the word "ale". Just a bit of whimsy, which, I gather, is somewhat of a tradition on blogs.

CPL · 12 months ago

Look how long it's taken to get this on record.

Meanwhile, forgive me if I don't do the happy dance on this development after THIS BLOG was the first to run with the "Black People are Responsible for the Passage of Prop. 8" meme spun by Andrew Sullivan, and without the statistics that would have supported his hysteria behind it.

<<<eye roll>>>

pdxprobert · 12 months ago

Is that what Andrew was expressing or was it that exit polls were showing that the black community voted in a higher percentage among the minority groups to deny equal treatment to homosexuals? Im not blaming the passage of Prop 8 on the black community... Ive heard several stats on the actual exit poll numbers ... a revised number for the percentage of black voters who voted to deny equal rights to homosexuals has been placed at 58%... but Im not sure exactly what the original sources of these numbers are...

CPL · 12 months ago

Sully ran with this information in a manner worthy of the closted Matt Drudge without verifying it. It was later determined that it wasn't 70% of African-Americans voted for the proposition; it was 70% of those who participated in the EXIT POLL.

Sully's piece didn't say it and John ran it on this blog AS-IS, which turned out to be erroneous and created tensions among gays and people of color that was unnecessary.

hawkseye · 12 months ago

Yes, Mormons played a major role in the passage of 8. So did gay organizations who raised plenty of money to defeat it. Their timing and message(s) were self-defeating.

sherifffruitfly · 12 months ago

Aw, cmon! You guys KNOW it was "the blacks"!

Don't let little things like brazillions of dollars distract you from the TRUE enemy!

roflmao

cowboyneok · 12 months ago

I still think Mormons and Evangelicals are the Shi'ite and Sunni forms of the Talibangelicals. They might pat each other on the back every now and then, but they still think their's is the only true faith, and will gladly damn each other to hell over their differences. Evangelicals won't ever be able to reconcile the Angel Moroni and Joseph Smith saga. They are both cults in each other's eyes.

pdxprobert · 12 months ago

what if they are following the enemy of my enemy is my friend strategy? then merge, each with two fingers pinching their noses? the evangelicals have already co-opted the catholics... ultimately, they will feed on each other, but until that time they appear to be organized...

But, what doesnt make sense to me is how can the mormons provide so much cash for this effort when traditional marriage to many of them is having multiple wives...it seems so odd that they chose to get involved this deeply unless many of the evangelicals would secretly like that option too.. sure would be interesting to find out if there are any hidden agenda's... the only thing is sarah still thinks she has a chance and she would have to find a way to disable the mittster's 2012 (presumed) candidacy.

cowboyneok · 12 months ago

You'd have lots of money, too, if you had a tax exempt political organization to support your business endeavors. As far as having many wives, its my understanding a lot of them have no problem with "welfare" when it comes to the "sister wives program." But, of course, that isn't "socialism" to them. Socialism is when poor black people get money from the government, and its a sin to the sister wives who consider their brand of socialism "G-d's way of smiling on polygamy."

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

Well, you're right. I can't imagine belonging to a religion where they go and pray and yet have so much anger in their hearts to do damage to a whole group of people. To lock on to one passage in Leviticus or misinterpret fables about dishonesty and hospitality and assume it has to be for gays, all the while ignoring passages and fables about their own lives -- both about sex, clothing, food, whatever -- is mean spiritedness and judgemental (a sin) -- not holy, spiritual, loving, or Godly. It really boggles my mind -- what exactly are they praying for, anyways? They don't seem to want world peace, loving thy neighbor (not that 'loving person and hating the sin' bullsh*t) or honesty. I grew up with those people -- polite to your face, but bitchy, judgemental, and cruel behind your back. Hardly the role model.

cowboyneok · 12 months ago

I see that as well. "polite to your face, but bitchy, judgemental, and cruel behind your back. " Absolutely.

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

My mother worked for the Methodist church in Michigan and always thought she was working for spiritual and kind people, but was shocked at the politicking that went on behind the scenes after the piety of Sunday.

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

"And they wonder why so many Americans now hate them." Exactly. I received a comment to one of my posts about how we're all hateful for hating the Mormons on this blog (from someone who labeled themselves "middle of the road" -- apparently not "middle of the road" enough). "Humble pie" for consorting with the devil and doing devilsih work isn't in the Mormon lexicon.

sheckums · 12 months ago

Let's not ban the Mormons, let's ban Webster's Dictionary!!!

This is a simple linguistics argument. Can homosexuals please just come up with a word of their own to describe their relationship with each other? Marriage is already taken, and it means between a man and a woman. In our country, when we want to come up with a new definition of an event/thing/whatever you want to call it, we make up a new word to describe it. I can't call soccer basketball just because I want it to be called basketball. The civil unions already provide benefits, so why not come up with a new word to describe these unions since civil unions isn't all that catchy. The people have spoken and decided to leave marriage as marriage. We're not going to protest if they want to come up with a new word.
Websters defines marriage as "the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.. I guess you could call the editors of Websters all bigots and the masterminds of this hate. Let's all get together and burn all the dictionaries!!! This is what marriage is--so please leave it alone and come up with a new word.

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

It's not that simple a linguistic argument. Civil unions only have a fraction of the rights and priviliges that marriage conveys. To complain about a word rather than an inclusion is silly. You apparently still want a schism in society, a sub-standard, subculture. No one should have to stand for that and still have to pay for taxes to support a government that doesn't support them in return. That's the simple argument.

sheckums · 12 months ago

Maybe civil unions only have a fraction of the rights because they only provide a fraction of the benefits to society, i.e. creating a family that wants to give back to society. I am not trying to create a subculture--it's already there. The fact is that homosexual marriage and heterosexual marriage is not the same thing, just as black is not the same as white. It's okay to have subcultures as long as we're still treating each other with respect. If the homosexuals are fighting for what they think is right, I'm not going to tell them that they're wrong--but I'm going to fight for what I think is right as well. I think it's unfair to label someone as a "hater" because they stand up for what they think is right. I voted for McCain, and I'm praying for Obama to do a good job and will support him nonetheless, even though I think his politics might affect my individual rights at some point in the future. This is a democracy--why would I protest what the majority has spoken? If I don't like it, I don't have to stay.

So two questions for you woodroad34:

1. If homosexuals came up with a word of their own that gave them all the same rights as a heterosexual marriage, would that be okay with you--is all you're looking for are rights?
2. What benefits do marriages provide that civil unions don't provide (pardon my ignorance in this matter, but I'm really not that familiar what a civil union does/does not provide that a marriage does)?

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

Well, that's an incredbily rude statement, "only a fraction of the benefits to society" -- there are gay families with natural born children to one of the parents, plus the adopted children that heterosexual couples have thrown away. Not to mention the greater amount of tax revenues taken from gays and lesbians because they don't have the benefit of tax relief that married couples do, or the benefits to the arts, leisure, manufacturing and employment. No wonder you voted for McCain. As for your other comments:

First off, there are all sorts of checks and balances in law to protect minorities (sub cultures) from the tyranny of the majority—just think of the Electoral College which was set up as a fourth arm of government as a check against the tyranny of the electorate, just as Congress was set up as a check against the tyranny of the presidency, and so on and so forth. Just because a majority of people voted against gay marriage doesn’t mean they have the right to take away privileges bestowed upon gays – it just takes a little imagination to think about taking away the right to vote for women or any rights given to religious activity or an ethnic minority. There are roughly 200 rights conferred to Civil Unions; however, there are approximately 1,400+ rights given to those in a ‘marriage’. Here are just a few of the rights that gays and lesbians in a civil union are denied but married couples enjoy:
1. Joint parental rights of children
2. Joint adoption
3. Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4. Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5. Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6. Crime victims recovery benefits
7. Domestic violence protection orders
8. Judicial protections and immunity
9. Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10. Public safety officers death benefits
11. Spousal veterans benefits
12. Social Security
13. Medicare
14. Joint filing of tax returns
15. Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16. Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17. Child support
18. Joint Insurance Plans
19. Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20. Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21. Estate and gift tax benefits
22. Welfare and public assistance
23. Joint housing for elderly
24. Credit protection
25. Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans
Even if people in a Civil Union were conferred all the rights of people in a “marriage”, could you even imagine if someone in a different ‘subculture’ than your own were told they couldn’t have a marriage but only a civil union: Oh, I’m sorry you’re Hispanic, you have to have a civil union; you’re Jewish? You have to have a civil union, because we’re a nation with a Christian majority. Calling a ‘marriage’ anything other than what it is sets that institution apart from ‘marriage’ and thus it becomes second-class and societally inferior. It’s totally unacceptable, and you would think so, too, if it happened to you.

cowboyneok · 12 months ago

Excellent response!

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

I had to lie down after that.....

ChrisSF · 12 months ago

How about "shmarriage"? As in, "we got shmarried last week and then went on our shmoneymoon to Puerto Vallarta." It would be great -- it would put us gays in our place and emphasize our second class status and let all the straight couples bask in their god-given superiority in the eyes of the law. It'd be like the "Shmemmys" -- that's the separate Emmy ceremony where they give all the technical awards that the big stars are too important it sit through.

ChrisSF · 12 months ago

Oh, and since words are the only issue, maybe we should go back to having two separate, equally good drinking fountains, one labeled "White" and the other labeled "Colored."

Jay · 12 months ago

It looks like the self proclaimed tolerant people aren't so tolerant after all. They are only tolerant when you agree with them. All this violence on the NO to prop 8 side sure looks like hate crimes to me. I am pretty sure the citizens of Utah would like nothing better than a boycott of the Sundance film festival. Keep the arrogant, self-centered, elitist Hollywood people out of the State.

Jim · 12 months ago

Yes, the so called "californians against hate" are the true haters here. The fact that they believe tolerance only is a one way street is sickening. We do need to pray for their change of heart.

cowboyneok · 12 months ago

Tolerance is a two way street? LOL - do tell how the Mormons were tolerant of our families by funding the proposition to take away our marriage rights in California? Damn right... tolerance is a two way street. Since LDS didn't show us any tolerance, we won't show LDS any tolerance. There!

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

Yee Haw! Ever notice how LDS is an anagram of sorts for LSD? Wonder if they swallowed that with the kool aid. Just asking.

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

You're ignorance on the word 'hate' is astounding. Just like the last 8 years where every comment out of the Republicans was so disturbingly illogical--like talking with the Mad Hatter or the Queen of Hearts. This is a REACTION to the Mormons ACTION. We're not angry from whole cloth, you punched us in the face and we are self-defending, just like you would if this had happened to you. You started the bitch slapping and you're responsible for this -- oh wait, like George Bush, it's everyone else's fault and not your own. Go see a shrink on your disturbing sociopathology.

Boycottutah · 12 months ago

Utah Tourism In Trouble!!!
http://www.sltrib.com/tourism/ci_10980857

Yay! It is working. Question. Do Mormon ski enthusiasts wear thermal "magic underware"? Oh, and is it a sin to leave skinmarks on your "magic underware"?

Do Mor(m)ons wear "magic jammies"?

Tom · 12 months ago

Right on Jay!!! I'm pretty sure Utah could do without the sniveling fags (who,by the way,got their asses hand to them in a fair election) running around trying to shove their views down everybodys throats.Queer bastards just can't take the fact that most people think they are sick twisted fuckers.I just want to know the answer to one question...who the hell thought the following was a good idea " Hey Bill, why don't you come over to my house tonight and stick that thing in my ass?" Who the hell thought THAT was a good idea????? Silly faggots.

Webster · 12 months ago

Thanks for demonstrating so publicly the hate and ignorance that gay people have to face every day. Some people don't believe it because they don't see it so often in their lives--and now you've given us a prime example.

Dave of the Jungle · 12 months ago

I vow not to repeatedly mention the MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE.

Joe · 12 months ago

And to think Mr. Aravosis said this today:

"I just think it's beyond naive to think that people are somehow not permitted to kiss and make-up after an election is over. Kissing and making up is what makes politics work, otherwise we spend our entire lives hating each other and hating everyone we've ever known. "

I guess the hate will continue towards Mormons?

woodroad34 · 12 months ago

Until they stop punching us in the nose, yes! And that goes for Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Muslims and Orthodox Jews. If you think we'll just roll over and won't fight back, you're really out of touch. Mormons have not kissed and made up with us -- and you're comment is evidence of that. If you want to be a wife-beater and expect your wife to "kiss and make up" after slapping her around, you seriously need to see a doctor about your psychological makeup.

cowboyneok · 12 months ago

PREACH IT, BROTHERMAN!

Kiss and make up? Not on your life! You Mormons made your bed, now LIE in it. Besides, some of us are better at turning our cheek than others just like people on the LDS / Catholic / Talibangelical side.

Apples and Oranges and we've just begun to fight your crap, and when we are done, our families and children will finish the job!