DISQUS

AMERICAblog: The Sunday night Wall Street tsunami, Part I: What happened?

  • Mark in Florida · 1 year ago
    This is a political gift to Obama. The economy will be front and center now.....and this is good for the dems. Obama did say it was McCain's same economic plan that created this mess, and we can expect more of it with McSAME

    SHIFT FOCUS BACK ON MCGRUMPY..........NO MORE PALIN...SHE WILL FADE, she is clueless.
  • Polly_Tics · 1 year ago
    Do you have any links to what was ACTUALLY said by Obama this morning? Or if not a link, do you know with whom he was interviewing or where he was giving a speech? I would appreciate knowing the complete text.

    Thanks Mark!
  • Mark in Florida · 1 year ago
    I read it on Huffingtonpost.com
  • John Aravosis · 1 year ago
    We posted it 2 hours ago
  • LLDEM · 1 year ago
    No it was not John McCain's fault, but it was the policies he ascribes to. (same thing in my book) He's just an out of touch old man with more out of touch cronies running his campaign.
  • sittenpretty · 1 year ago
  • Polly_Tics · 1 year ago
    IF Obama actually said this morning, that the economy was not McCain's fault, than I will have lost respect for Barack and the campaign. This is carrying his "different kind of politics" a bit too far and it only serves to make me angry.

    And the last time I checked, I thought it was us who were financing his campaign....
  • John Aravosis · 1 year ago
    "I certainly don’t fault Senator McCain for these problems, but I do fault the economic philosophy he subscribes to." The economic philosophy? So we're gonna talk "philosophy" - how very intellectual of us. John McCain has been in Washington for almost 30 years. He's part of the problem. His top economic adviser, Phil Gramm, created this very problem we're discussing this morning. His other top economic adviser wrote an article scolding us for thinking the economy was in trouble. John McCain and his entourage fiddled while Rome burned. How in God's name do we not fault mcCain for these problems? But don't worry, we're going to talk about his philosophy.

    Then there's McCain saying he knows nothing about economics - great, so we're going to have an inexperienced president taking over during an economic crisis (imagine what McCain would do if we called him inexperienced - kaboom!) And then there's the fact that Mccain knows a thing or two about banking crisis - Keating Five. Lots of fodder here. But please don't go there. It would be mean.
  • gaiilonfong · 1 year ago
    Do you have the exact quote, thanks?
  • Mark in Florida · 1 year ago
    I agree with you John, however if Obama says it is McCains fault directly, people will reject that notion. I believe Obama should sieze this moment and really drive it down McSames throat. It will be interesting to see what the rest of the day holds on the campaign trail.
  • John Aravosis · 1 year ago
    No reason for him to say I don't blame John McCain for this. That's absurd, and it's part of a pattern of them constantly praising the opposition
  • Rob Mule · 1 year ago
    While I agree with you that this seemingly endless mouthing of positives about McDemon is absurd, I'm imagining the intent is to schmooze potentially cross-over Republicans and indys.
    These voters, and all I can speak to are sw OH cloth-coaters, are very rattled about their stocks and positions in the Republican status food chain...A couple this morning even tried to blame FDR and could only mutter "Well, I guess so" when reminded of the deregulation started in the Reagan era."
    McCain's statement (don't know if it was last night or this morning) that he and Palin would rewrite financial law certainly sounds Phil Gramm scary enough to cause significant cross-over.
  • Mark in Florida · 1 year ago
    I agree, the backhanded compliment stuff is getting old to me too. We do need to be going for jugular, they certainly do. Phillosophy should have been replaced with Policy. Because they are identical. Phillosophy sounds too professoral. We have to remember we are dealing with the stupid middle.
  • HereinDC · 1 year ago
    John . You guys are so good in doing brief synopsis of situations...

    Could you do a brief synopsis of what Phil Gramm did back in 2000 to fester what is happening today?
  • Polly_Tics · 1 year ago
    Obama's tactic of being a gentleman has been taken to an absurd playing ground. He MUST attack McCain FOR his support of the Bush economic horrors that they forced on our country.

    I admire Obama for his desire for a high minded campaign, but it has been demonstrated that the Republicans are NOT about to follow suit.

    Damn it all, why doesn't Obama "get it"?
  • HereinDC · 1 year ago
    Lehman Brothers survived The Great Depression but not the Bush Administration.
  • Mark in Florida · 1 year ago
    exactly.
  • WDemDem · 1 year ago
    Excellent point. Let's forward that to all MSM outlets!
  • gaiilonfong · 1 year ago
    JOHN, can you give the EXACT Obama quote, because I just heard on MSNBC that Obama camp say it was the repub policies of which McSame has been a part of for 26 years that caused this
  • WDemDem · 1 year ago
    And don't think his words won't end up on a McSame ad. Bad strategy. Everything now is about strategy.
  • eclecticbrotha · 1 year ago
    What the Obama memo actually said:

    "I certainly don’t fault Senator McCain for these problems, but I do fault the economic philosophy he subscribes to. It’s a philosophy we’ve had for the last eight years – one that says we should give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else. It’s a philosophy that says even common-sense regulations are unnecessary and unwise, and one that says we should just stick our heads in the sand and ignore economic problems until they spiral into crises."

    I think he should have left the first part of that sentence off and simply said "These are the philosophies of the people who run John McCain's economic policy." Stop making excuses for the guy who's calling you a child molester.

    But, no one will even remember that little slip up when they see the clip of McCain STILL insisting "The fundamentals of our economy are still strong." As I said in the diary comments I'm starting to think McCain meant "fundamentalists."

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/15/10201/3...
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    Hey, "eclecticbrotha"

    I get ya, but the problem with Obama and the Democratic response is there is always some caveat they feel they have to add at the beginning of any negative statement about Republicans that somehow absolves them of responsibility. There should be ZERO reference to McCain not having any "fault." It is as much McCain's fault as ANY Republican that adhered and toed the Bu$hco Economic line. I'm sick to death of any criticism being couched in, "John McCain is an honorable man, but..." or "John McCain is my friend, but..." The low information voter doesn't get beyond the soft pedalling. If they are going to attack McCain, by GOD, attack him! No more sweet nothings... NOTHING! HIT HIM SQUARE IN THE FACE AND BLOODY HIS GODDAMNED NOSE! Sorry but we have to fight. No more being nice because we can't afford four more years of this shit. Angry? HELL YES! Lets, by God, SHOW how angry we are!

    You said it best when you said, "Stop making excuses for the guy who's calling you a child molester."

    AMEN, BROTHERMAN!
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    When Republicans come on air and say, "The Democrats didn't cause any of this. This is all our fault because we've been in control of the economy and pushing the privatization of Social Security and that whole "Ownership Society" schlock!" THEN.... THEN... I will support Obama saying something along the lines of minimizing McCain's personal responsibility. Until then... forget it.
  • Polly_Tics · 1 year ago
    I'm angry at Obama's tact as well, but do I read you correctly that you won't support Obama UNTIL he fires back?
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    Not only "No." but "GOD NO!" LOL! I'm at my condo in Dallas, and just read your question. I support Obama with EVERY FIBER of my being. I just fear its going to be another 2000 or 2004 if he doesn't get on his game and BEAT THE CRAP out of McSame and Palin. He needs to knock them down and keep them down until America votes. Then he can be as nice as he wants.
  • LLDEM · 1 year ago
    As much as I'd like to lay this directly at the the door of John McCain, he's merely one cog in a vast machine and to be honest, I can't see Johnny boy hanging out at a Senate Banking Committee Meeting at all. I think he'd fall asleep from boredom. It was right for Obama not to do this as well because to insinuate that this was indeed "McCain's Fault" would have been really stretching and we know, only McCain can stretch an issue that far. Linking McCain to failed Bush/Cheney policy is the best way to get him on this one.
  • John Aravosis · 1 year ago
    Ah you're right, we wouldn't want to be mean. And we certainly wouldn't want to say anything that anyone might be able to disagree with. Yes, better to be 100% absolutely positively sure that we can allege something, rather than say it and make McCain defend himself. And I'm sure McCain believes that Obama called Palin a pig :-)
  • LLDEM · 1 year ago
    John, I didn't say don't be mean. I'm all for mean. The meaner the better. That's why I come here, to see mean that I don't see anywhere else. But I'm also a big believer in facts and the fact is, Obama "alleged" McCain's fault in this by directly tying him to the failed Bush Policies of the last 8 years. Adding that Phil Graham is advising McCain's campaign would be icing on the cake.
  • luvboxer · 1 year ago
    This blame goes at the door of Bush and the Republican Party..McCain included. Its all about greed..greed and more greed. How can anyone put another republican in office. If the american people don't get rid of these crooks they are nuts.
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    Did the Obama campaign follow that up with Americans are just a bunch of whiners?
  • John Aravosis · 1 year ago
    No
  • bbock · 1 year ago
    I admire Obama's restraint. But in this case, it's unhelpful. What he needs to do is pin it on Bush and Republican governance. Bush is McCain. McCain is a Republican. People will read the transitive property for themselves and McCain is linked to it. He shouldn't distance McCain from this. It is a direct result of his party's behavior and beliefs and those of his advisors and the people running his campaign. It may be gentlemanly to give McCain cover. But if we've learned one damned thing it's that you can't be nice to Republicans. They don't appreciate it and they will not reciprocate.
  • existenz · 1 year ago
    I remember when McCain was mocked for blaming Obama himself for high gas prices. It would be kind of silly to blame McCain personally for this economic disaster.

    Everything else Obama said was right on. I love how he links this disaster not just to Bush, not just to Washington Republicans, but to their entire conservative philosophy. We've been waiting a long time for a Democratic politician to promote liberal policies over failed conservative ones, and that's what he is doing.

    But yes, I think Obama needs to overcome his "truthful nuance" impulse and drop any sentences that could be construed as letting McCain off the hook.

    BTW - Just saw Claire McCaskill on MSNBC. She was already ripping into McCain for saying the fundamentals of our economy are strong. That's some fast response time!
  • sukabi1 · 1 year ago
    John, he's clearly setting himself apart from how the McCain camp is going to handle this... they WILL outright blame Obama.

    Chris, since the world markets are all being hit very hard this morning... and it looks like the Dow is having a "mildly down" (comparatively) day so far, how likely do you think that instead of a bailout of the banks, the Fed is pumping money INTO the Dow to prop it up?
  • MnDem · 1 year ago
    You have to take these failures and tie them directly to what people care about - their pocketbooks.

    For a starter, I would run ads aimed at seniors. Tie these investment bank failures to John McCain's support for privatizing social security. Remind people that their retirement funds would be going down the drain if John McCain and George Bush had been successful.

    And I don't care if it's all very technical and nuanced. We have to win an election, not a college debate tournament.
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    It has to appeal to the low information, ignorant average voter. What you suggest is GOOD, really GOOD but you are right. We need to win an election. Older people, especially, understand the argument about Social Security and they experienced the Great Depression. Most people realize REPUBLICANS have been in charge and finally got their way with deregulation and we are reaping the "rewards" of it by all these bank collapses. Its time to get back to the GREAT SOCIETY and Democratic principals before we totally lose our nation.
  • MnDem · 1 year ago
    A friend of mine who has been involved in campaigns here in Minnesota for 50 years made an interesting observation to me a few days back. She said that Obama was still running a primary campaign, aimed at people on the left, who generally look at issues, analyze candidates' positions, and then vote accordingly. But he hasn't been able to make the shift to the general election voter (or, as you like to put it, the low information voter), who doesn't go online and carefully review every issue.

    People vote more with their hearts than their heads. He has to understand that and make the switch. It's noble to try and elevate the discussion, but it won't win him the election.
  • Polly_Tics · 1 year ago
    I say that Obama NEEDS to run a Populist campaign going directly to the hearts, minds and POCKETBOOKS of the public.
  • MnDem · 1 year ago
    I miss Paul Wellstone. He would know how to get that message out to the voter. People here in Minnesota voted for Paul because they knew, deep inside, that he understood their issues and concerns. Not everyone agreed with his positions, but they knew that he meant what he said, and would work hard for them.

    Does anyone in this campaign convey that same passion? Joe Biden could, I think. Maybe someone could remind him of his old friend Paul from the Senate and tell him to get after it.
  • Polly_Tics · 1 year ago
    I was devastated when I heard of Paul's death and frankly, it made me wonder if it was an accident. The timing was so odd...

    I am hardly a conspiracy theorist so that idea was not something that I am usually comfortable with, however it was just so suspicious.

    In any event, yes he was passionate and honest and I only wish that I had such a representative in the Senate. Biden is good at stirring up the pot, but what McCain's campaign has done with all of the sleazy lies and slander has pushed the media to cover the ANTICS and not the ISSUES. They know that is the only way they could win this election and they will DO ANYTHING TO WIN.

    It all makes me sick...
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    I'm not afraid to blame the Republicans for his death. I don't put ANYTHING past them. I'm not sure they killed Paul, but it certainly would not surprise me. In fact, I think they should have to prove they DIDN'T kill him. If it were a Republican, I'm sure they would demand the Democrats PROVE they didn't have anything to do with it, and until then it would be all our fault!
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    MnDem, you and your friend are 110% correct. You are RIGHT! He needs to shift to general campaign mode. EARTH TO OBAMA CAMPAIGN - SWITCH NOW!
  • EmGD · 1 year ago
    Good. I'm glad Obama didn't go out saying "This is all John McCain's fault. Blame him!" Nothing will get the media jumping to it's feet to defend someone like an accusation that John McCain personally caused the major economic problem that's going on. What he did was smart, attacking all the stuff John McCain supported, believes in, and wants to enact. That's a better way to go than "Start the effigy pile, John McCain is to blame for your lot in life."

    http://thesebastards.blogspot.com/
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    Well, you can bet the Republicans would do it if the shoe was on the other foot. The low information voter hears, "John McCain is a fine chap... " then they turn off their hearing. They don't understand nuance. If Democrats were in charge the so-called "liberal" media would be screeching, "Why have Democrats caused this economic tsunami and will a new Republican administration be able to fix it?" You can bet Republicans get away with murder with the compliant press. There is no FOURTH ESTATE anymore. Republicans, like Karl Rove, game "the refs."
  • 4dogs · 1 year ago
    I think today of all days should be the beginning of Obama's new harder hitting campaign. At least that's what Joe said on Morning Joe this morning. So today I want to see Obama come out swinging, showing how McCain's policys have supported our economic downturn. He has to do it in ways that the less intellectual can understand. Keep it simple and straightforward and hit back as hard as you can. People who are less intellectual want to see "strong". So Obama needs to show his strengh or McSame wins.
  • sukabi1 · 1 year ago
    John, while you might not like the statement from Obama THIS would be the PERFECT time to bring up McCain's DIRECT involvement in the LAST banking scandal this country had.... The Keating / Lincoln Savings & Loan mess and how it cost taxpayers BILLIONS to clean up... and how McCain wasn't interested enough in what went wrong to educated himself or his family on banking economics.... Mr. Andy McCain is currently involved in a similar situation with the bank he resigned from last month...
  • HereinDC · 1 year ago
    Phil Gramm = McCain = Bush = Phil Gramm

    lather
    rinse
    repeat
  • Rob Mule · 1 year ago
    I don't get this "don't say anything mean" crap. Especially after, what, 16 years of Rethug "say anything mean" crap????
    Facts are not "mean" they are "facts".
    Will we have a 2nd grade time-out in the corner chair?
    Are we having an election or a messy divorce?
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    The "don't say anything mean" crap only seems to apply to Democrats. Republicans say shit all the time and then they win. Its time to stop doing the same shit over and over again and expecting different results. We can't afford another four years of their mismanagement.
  • 4dogs · 1 year ago
    I heard Joe Biden is going to give a big speech today. I hope it's going to be on what is going on in the economy. Joe gets more attention when he fires up his righteous anger. I think Joe should come across with passion, and I think that's what Obama has to do more of. He has to look passionate about what he feels and hit back hard. Today is a perfect day for Obama to come out swinging.
  • barts · 1 year ago
    Wall Street isn't a tsunami but hurricane Ike and the American public are like sitting ducks thinking that if they ignore the siutation it will pass over us with no harm to come. Meanwhile the republicans and Bush are quelling the media and sending out their minions to tell us we're just whiners- the economy is strong- their is nothing to worry about.
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    It won't stop with Lehman brothers. If the powers that be, and I mean the big central banks won't support propping up someone like Lehman brothers you had better fasten your seat belt. We are about ready to see the real shit hit the fan! I've been called a "chicken little" by my family, but this is some serious shit. I'm with ya "barts."
  • Polly_Tics · 1 year ago
    Heck, you're no chicken little when Alan Greenspan of all people, tells us that this is the worst economy in 100 years!
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    I hate to see the collapse of Lehman Brothers, and 100,000 job losses on Wall Street, but it is best it happens now. The "undecided, low information, ignorant" voter needs to be smacked in the face before this election. Thank God it is occurring now and not a couple of months after McSame is installed. We have to have change. I'm hoping the sheep that went over to the Palin-McSame camp will wake up and come back to Obama when they realize they won't be able to shop as much at Wal-Mart if they keep supporting the same crap over and over again!
  • Rob Mule · 1 year ago
    Didn't I hear the crybaby, Zbig's daughter or the Nazi say this morning on MSTIM that Lehman handled NBC's payroll?
    Ouchie wow...and just when Timmah Jr. comes officially onboard to pursue his mindlessly boring, assistant-generated stories...
  • RonNYC · 1 year ago
    All this restraint just makes me sick. Is the Obama team cowardly? Just doesn't make any sense. Why isn't this McCain's fault? It should be. Blame McCain; let him explain why it isn't. Frankly, while I like Obama, he and Biden just don't seem to have it in them to fight. Makes me pine all the more for Hillary.
  • 4dogs · 1 year ago
    I would love to see a 527 ad up on the Keating scandal. Oh how we forget. But I know Obama won't do it, so someone else should. I talked to someone the other day who said" oh McCain was exonerated wasn't he". Duh! These are the people that are sitting on the fence in this election Obama or a 527 can reach. They need to refresh people's memories.
  • 4dogs · 1 year ago
    Keating 5, Keating 5, Keating 5 ! The Rethugs would have no problems with an ad out like this about Obama. Dems are too nice. I don't want nice anymore. Besides none of this is a lie, it's what happened. Surrogates should be talking about it if Obama won't.
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    Sarah Palin live now telling the sheep how she is going to change Washington! BWah hahahahaaa!

    As much as they slam President Carter, that was always his biggest criticism. He was a governor from outside Washington and Washington would NOT work with him and that is why he couldn't get a damned thing done, even though Carter had good ideas. Sarah Palin and Jimmy Carter have a lot in common, so they better be careful criticizing him too much.

    Palin just said Washington was "asleep at the switch." Uh, that would be John McCain, dear.
  • Rob Mule · 1 year ago
    More lika an Ambien sleep where they not only cleaned out the fridge but also any last remaining public-protecting regulatory measures...Oops. Mebbe Palin should start blaming Big Pharma.
  • scottinsf · 1 year ago
    It is insulting to continually hear Obama kiss McCain's ass. Very insulting.
  • Polly_Tics · 1 year ago
    Not to mention INFURIATING!
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    WAIT A DAMNED SECOND! WHO IS THAT FREAK over Sarah Palin's right shoulder? That guy was featured in her Colorado Springs speech. Meaning he has been placed behind her AGAIN! Does the Palin - McSame camp speech producers think that guy represents her somehow? Why do they keep putting him behind her when she speaks? He is the guy in the blue blazer and light blue shirt - looks like a Ted Haggard follower... He has crazy eyes and a rabid smile. Does anyone else, but me, recognize that FREAK? Is he paid to be one of her followers or is he just a Sarah Palin groupie? I wish I could put his photo up to show everyone what I'm talking about. I never forget a face, and especially his. When I saw him, I though, "That guy was probably Ted Haggard's other boyfriend..." He sure looks like it.
  • sukabi1 · 1 year ago
    what are you watching cowboyneok?
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    MSNBC but I swear I've seen that guy over and over again. Who is he? He looks like a fundie preacher - Ted Haggard boyfriend type... I saw him several times today. Does he have some kind of "fatal attraction" for Palin? Is he part of her campaign? He is showing up behind her everywhere! He does't look like secret service... just some blond haired / blue eyed Nazi boy type.
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    Biden speaking on MSNBC and I'm already impressed. The Obama / Biden campm put an old veteran behind Biden! We are finally getting smart. I'm a veteran, and nothing says VETERANS ARE FOR OBAMA than to put is in camera shot when our guy's speak!

    Biden, "The sequal is always WORSE than the original!"

    Go Joe! Its your birthday! Its your birthday!
  • cowboyneok · 1 year ago
    Joe Biden "John McCain is BUSH 44!" Yea!

    Okay, Biden, stop with the "John McCain is a personal friend and honorable soldier" shit. We've heard that all before... we know... we know... good follow up but just STOP with it. Joe doesn't need to say that shit at every whistle stop.
  • EsmeK · 1 year ago
    What is happening is a planned consolidation of the banking industry.

    For an outstanding and explanation of "what is going on," I highly recommend the work of form HUD official Catherine Austin Fitts. She gives a lucid insider's view of the collusion between government and Wall Street. Her posts on the housing bailout, for example, are super:
    solari.com/archive/housing_bill/