AMERICAblog: The unholy Catholic-Mormon alliance isn't limited to gay bashing. They share a history of covering up sex abuse of children.
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
A partnership of thieves.
Peacemaker
· 11 months ago
Gay or not, I personally have no problem with any of you because you are gay or pro gay. But, I do have a problem with all of your comments. You sound like a bunch of Nazi's yourselves... Get a life already and try to make a positive difference in the world. The Catholics and the Mormons are not out to get you because of revenge... which I have heard over and over again, but they are doing what they believe in, which is to protect what they believe to be man and woman ordained for marriage. You disagree, fine... But instead of using your God given right to fight in a humanely way to disagree all you talk about is hate, ignorance, and revenge. Look at yourselves in the mirror ...
Webster
· 1 year ago
Birds (of prey) of a feather, flock together...
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
When I was a Catholic, we were told that the Mormons were a cult. Now I think both the Catholic and Mormon churches are cults. I am an Episcopalian now, and today we prayed for the safety of President Obama and his family. You won't be hearing that in any Catholic parishes.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
strange bedfellows...ick.
dad
· 1 year ago
preaching collective hate fills the collection plate.
foxy
· 1 year ago
Go Dad Go!
dula
· 1 year ago
Wanda Sykes just came out! I guess Prop. 8 pushed her over the edge. Good for her! Now, that is the kind of "outreach" to the Black Community that can work. Gay Blacks need to come out to their families and Churches. Gay Latinos need to do the same. Gay Whites can wait a bit because White homophobes are going to be the last group to understand what Civil Rights mean.
green_libertarian
· 1 year ago
I followed that Idaho Falls story when it was happening. It was simply the most bizarre, intriguing story I've read in a very long time. Vandersloot is a complete fundie asshole, and his vast Melaluca fortune has funded many a hate campaign. He OWNS Idaho Falls, but not their newspaper, which is big critic, which while running the investigate series, ALSO published (as ads) responses from Vandersloot. Bizarre.Vandersloot also raised alot of money for Mitt during the primary.
Then there's this:
"VanderSloot also used his financial reserves in the fall of 1999 to propagandize his narrow-minded ideology in an advertising campaign aimed at attacking free speech. He took aim at Idaho Public Television (IPTV) when it planned to show “It’s Elementary,” a documentary that dared to show gays and lesbians as human beings to school children.
VanderSloot plastered his anti-gay propaganda on billboards around Idaho and promoted a campaign to strong-arm lawmakers to see things his way unless “It’s Elementary” was pulled from the public airwaves."
Joe, I'll see your Catholic upbringing and raise it to an evangelical upbringing. The Catholic leaders are actually selling their souls (if they have any left) in order to kick us to the curb. I remember why the Mormons were considered a cult. They believe that Jesus is a created being, and that goes against Christian Doctrine.
An_American_Karol
· 1 year ago
The way I see it, the Mormons were invited to be recognized by the mainstream religions if they helped bash gays. Like the unpopular kid invited to the popular kid's party if the unpopular kid brought the beer, the Mormons jumped on it. It was a win/win for the fundies and Catholics; the Mormons put in the money and are taking the heat. And, when school starts, the popular kid will start picking on the unpopular kid again.
Mike_in_the_Tundra
· 1 year ago
That sounds very plausible. I hope you're right.
Patrick_Bateman
· 1 year ago
The oppressed have unhealthy sexual appetites.
foxy
· 1 year ago
We think we have "closets"...more skeletons in theirs.
snowpotato
· 1 year ago
Frank Vandersloot is a horrible man. I am originally from the Idaho Falls area and I still have family there. He uses his money to do this sort of thing and now he is also trying to block windmills from being placed on ranches in rural Idaho because he has bought up land around the ranches and is concerned about them bringing down the value of his land that he probably intends to develop one day. He's more interested in his personal wealth than to see wind energy developed. I heard too that a lady wrote a letter to the editor of the Idaho Falls newspaper when this boy scout abuse stuff was going on and he had one of his goons call and harrass her. The man is bad and dangerous.
green_libertarian
· 1 year ago
Vandersloot went after a liberal Idaho blogger who dared to mention some rumors that Vandersloot was funneling money to Larry (Wide Stance) Craig:
"Eric Goldman at the Technology and Marketing Law Blog chronicles a case involving multi-level marketing/health products company Melaleuca, its CEO Frank VanderSloot, and an Idaho political blogger that goes by the pseudonym Tom Paine.
At the 43rdstateblues blog, Paine posted the details of an unconfirmed rumor saying that VanderSloot had paid off controversial Idaho Senator Larry Craig (which is rather hilarious in itself, considering VanderSloot's full-page anti-gay advertisements).
But it's understandable that VanderSloot would want to dispel and remove a rumor if untrue, and it was redacted eventually.
Another blogger, "d2", according to Goldman, posted the cease-and-desist letter sent to 43rdstateblues that alleged defamation and demanded the rumor post be taken down. But before the letter was sent, counsel for Melaleuca registered a copyright for the letter."
Here in Phoenix, AZ, the Catholic/Mormon common interest in pedophilia, I.e., practising it, goes back decades. Since there have been little reported in the last few years, perhaps both pedophilic institutions have gotten more sophisticated at covering it up.
skeptic
· 1 year ago
But isn't all of this attacking showing intolerance for their religion??
I say, investigate the hell out of these douche bags and bring the dirt into the light so that everyone can see for themselves just how disgusting these people really are with their cult. Anyone who reads the true history of Joseph Smith will realize that he was a total con artist and grifter.
As for the Catholic church, they are a corrupt organization that has been ripping off the world for two thousand years. I left that church at 12, because even at that young age I realized that something was not right nor was there truth to be had. Needless to say that my father was shocked (or at least he acted shocked) but I stood by my guns and have never set foot in any spot remotely associated with them. A criminal outfit.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
We don't hate Mormons. We hate the sins of Mormons.
Radardan
· 1 year ago
Extra stars for wit and finely targeted spears, DavidinPS!!
FYI, the RCs in the US have "officially" paid out more than $3,000,000,000. Yep, that's BILLION! With a "B." That doesn't include hundreds of millions in atty fees, millions for PR spin firms to re-victimize the survivors and intimidate them into withdrawing their suits, and who-knows how many millions over the decades paid to victims and their families as hush money.
Anyone not believing the institutional RC Church (emphatically, not the Catholic faith, but the institutional church, that multi-national business here on planet Earth headquartered in Vatican City) is not totally and utterly corrupt need only go to www.bishop-accountability.org and read of past and ongoing obscenities committed in the name of maintaining the status quo.
For daily updates on this sick sick organized criminal enterprise, daily reading at www.bishop-accountability.org/AbuseTracker is recommended. This page includes criminality in ALL religions. NB: HAVE BARF BAG AT READY!
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
I remember reading about the Zuckerman case at the time - did the reporter ever land firmly with his feet on the ground?
What bothers me more is that every state and national press organization should have come to that young reporter's defense. Unfortunately, for far too long these institutional "churches" have propagated a special privilege that somehow often keeps them from being properly investigated. Heck - after over 10,000 of covered-up child sexual abuse are any Roman Catholic churches listed on the sex offender's directories?
Radardan
· 1 year ago
Another warrior and highly regarded journalist in bringing truth to Mormons is the now deceased Deborah Laake who wrote a bestseller called "Secret Ceremonies: A Mormon Woman's Intimate Diary of Marriage and Beyond" published in 1993. Deborah was an eccentric of high order and called many Gay men and women her friends. http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2000-02-10/news/...
mirele
· 1 year ago
The book was excerpted in Cosmopolitan when it came out. I commented wryly at the time that the average Cosmo girl knew more about the temple ceremony than the average Mormon girl of equivalent age who had not been through the temple.
Radardan
· 1 year ago
Similarly, Deborah recounts a story where she attended a sex education seminar before her first marriage. She says the seminar leader asked if there were Mormons present because they would start at a more basic level than if there weren't.
ShirleyGoodnessanMercy
· 1 year ago
Californians need to put forth a referendum declaring Mormonism to be a cult.
Betcha it would pass!!
Revenge is sweet.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Thataway foolishness. What is a "cult" if not a religion we don't like?
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
Umm..yeah.
green_libertarian
· 1 year ago
What is cultish about the Unitarian Universalists?
Indigo
· 1 year ago
What's to dislike?
scytherius
· 1 year ago
Oh that they do! We can not let this rest. We must hammer these two groups HARD.
Radardan
· 1 year ago
A felon (convicted of manslaughter for killing an innocent pedestrian and then leaving the scene) Bishop in the Catholic Church was the unforgettable Bishop Thomas J. O'Brien in the Archdiocese of Phoenix, AZ. During the 1980's he alone covered up for a number of pederastic priests.
But he finally got his due on this earthly plane after running over a pedestrian, killing him, and then calmly driving to his "bishoply" residence. Unfortunately, his car still showed the human dents of killing someone. His explanation? He thought he ran over a dog (but still did not stop).
Boy Scouts would probably collapse in the USA if it weren't for the Mormon Church. Every ward (congregation) has a pack, if they've got the boys. The Scouts get to do really cool stuff and go camping and things like that, while the girls have--Young Women's and, well, maybe one camping trip a year. (Bitter much, Mirele? Why yes, it just shows how much men are favored over women in the LDS Church.)
Back in the 1970s, the Scouting program was melded with the LDS Church's "priesthood" to the point that in order to have a certain position within a Scout troop, one had to hold the "priesthood" in the LDS Church. Thing is, at that time, if you were black, you could not hold that position in an LDS troop, because you couldn't hold the priesthood because of your race. There was a lawsuit over that, as you can imagine, and the "priesthood" became decoupled from the LDS scout troops.
While the other churches that take part in US Scouting have their share of guilt in the current bigotry expressed towards gay and atheist scouts and leaders, the overwhelming control is with the LDS church. I am serious...Scouting would collapse without Mormons.
loona_c
· 1 year ago
Scouting would not collapse without the Mormans. That said, the Mormons use the scouting program as their (required) youth program. I know "professonal scouters" who concur that the Mormon scouts run things differently than regular boy scouts. In fact when there are summer camps, etc., the Morman groups will have their own sessions because their program is unique enough it doesn't fit in with regular boy scouts.
And the Morman stake presidets (or whatever) decide who is going to be an adult scout leader. So you do have people involved who don't necessarily want to be there, but were told to do so.
mirele
· 1 year ago
There's no equivalent program for girls. Boys have Young Men's/Scouting, and girls have Young Women's. More ward budget goes to Scouting than to Young Women's activities. It's discriminatory, but the boys have the almighty Priesthood and the girls get doodly squat.
And yes, I do think that the Scouting program would be much poorer, more diminished in stature and probably open to not being snots about gays and atheists if it weren't for the Mormon influence and money.
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
If one is to believe the Bible, one cannot build a solid house on a faulty foundation. Since the Mormon church is a faulty foundation, I question anything good coming from the Scouts.
skwcw2001
· 1 year ago
it is amazing how downplayed the huge gay protest was done on mainstream media amazing
skeptic
· 1 year ago
Why are you surprised? Are you not still a second or third class citizen? Did you become a first class one somehow?
We need to organize as a group and keep up the pressure on the whole country. Enough is enough.
See MILK when it comes out on November 28th.
Webster
· 1 year ago
They were so relieved there was a fire in CA so they wouldn't have to cover this incredible nation-wide gathering of people speaking up for civil rights it was almost palpable.
Soaplady57
· 1 year ago
Marie Osmond commented once on how "difficult" it was for her oldest son to become an Eagle Scout......Apparently, not a lot of boys can make the cut!
catdance
· 1 year ago
Here in CT, rightwing Catholics and Mormons are joining forces in the Family Institute of Connecticut. The former head of FIC, Brian Brown, has gone national with the National Organization for Marriage -- who fundraised so effectively for Prop 8.
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
If that is the case, our voices better become much more organized and much more clear. And it is time to stop acting as if these "churches" should be treated with kid gloves.
catdance
· 1 year ago
Exactly. It's time to revisit the idea of tax exemptions for churches.
skeptic
· 1 year ago
I am beginning to think that what we need is a new political party. The Minority Party which would consist of all those that are disenfranchised in this country. There are tons of minorities who are totally ignored or paid lip service by the two major parties.
I don't know how these things are put together but it seems to me that we need to do more than grouse about getting screwed again by the majority. Any ideas about this?
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
Sounds good in theory, but we'd probably end up going for each other's throats.
green_libertarian
· 1 year ago
Unfortunately true.
Tyke
· 1 year ago
Sounds like the League of Pissed Off Voters ( a real organization)
phaet2112
· 1 year ago
You should avoid demonizing all Mormons or all Catholics in your posts.
Lines like "...If I know one thing about Catholics, they don't like being linked with cults -- and most Catholics think the Mormons are a cult. That may sound harsh, but I grew up Catholic and I know how Catholics think. " and " The Catholics don't have much spare cash these days because they've spent hundreds of millions to settle sex abuse cases." and "We know how widespread the Catholic problem is." (Seriously- you couldn't phrase this line better? I know it references the sex abuse scandal, but honestly- take a second to read before posting)
unnecessarily tie in decisions by Catholic and Mormon hierarchy with lay people who practice or grew up as part of that religion. What about parishes who have open attitudes towards GLBT parishoners? What about Mormons who didn't give money and didn't support the Mormon leadership's stance on Prop 8? This kind of post gives people an excuse to harbor intolerance towards Mormons and Catholics solely based on their religion, and is especially ignorant and inexcusable coming in reference to Prop 8.
skeptic
· 1 year ago
If they disagree with the stands that their leaders are taking, then they should stand up and say so publicly. this kind of attitude reminds me of the German's who disagreed with the Nazi policies early on but kept their mouths shut. All the Mormon's and Catholic's that did not support this terrible vote should have screamed loud and clear. You obviously have never been gay bashed or thrown out of a job because of who you are.
Either you have integrity or you don't but you can't have it both ways. I find anyone who would deny another their basic rights as human beings as being despicable. I don't care what their religious beliefs are or how offended they are. After you have been beaten by 6 grown men simply for walking down the street, you come back and tell be about your little diatribe above.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
FYI, out of 13 million plus Mormons, about 300 signed a petition opposing Prop 8. One hates to make generalizations, but with numbers like that, I don't feel so bad about it.
skeptic
· 1 year ago
Where is this petition? Let us see it.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
Skeptic, I think we are on the same side of this argument. As I re-read my post I am horrified that it may read like I am DEFENDING Mormons. Three hundred out of thirteen million hardly justifies anybody saying "Oh, a lot of Mormons didn't march in lock step"
skeptic
· 1 year ago
I agree with you. I thought that the 13 million vs 300 was a bit of a lame statistic.
The bottom line is that we need to counter individuals, for whatever their reasons, that would deny us all a place at the communal table of society because of their conditioned opinions. To do otherwise is a slap in the face of democracy.
Best
----- Original Message ----- From: Disqus To: maleko@innocent.com Subject: [americablog] Re: The unholy Catholic-Mormon alliance isn't limited to gay bashing. They share a history of covering up sex abuse of children. Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:24:02 -0000
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
I am actively going after the Catholic and Mormon churches. Mormons and Catholics who support us SHOULD DO THE SAME. I will be happy to 'tolerate' either/both of these institutions when they learn to 'tolerate' me. Until then, they may want to prepare themselves for what is going to be a rough winter for them.
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
Gosh...you left out the part where the gay community has established a multitude of re-education and conversion centers for both churches. . . oh - that's right - those Churches are doing it to US.
Look - Prop H8 or NOT, we have a whole list of grievances against these institutions. Who pays for the ex-gay subsidiaries operating from those churches? Don't the Mormons have their own reeducation camp for gays? And where does that funding come from?
truthseeker
· 1 year ago
When I read the "I know how Catholics think" screed, I had the same reaction you did only anger. Call bigotry, bigotry, no matter who says it. This is insidious bigotry. I'm from Ohio, white, and gay. I guess I get to say I know how gay white men from Ohio think because I grew up there. Insert any group in there..."I know how blacks think because I'm black." I had an Asian friend say to me the other day that if Hillary had been the nominee, prop 8 would not have passed...and all his black gay friends are against marriage rights. I guess the implication was that not as many blacks would have voted had Hillary been the nominee. That bigotry was flat disgusting, too.
The fact is that they were better. They organized better, they gave more money. You win by winning hearts and minds. You win by taking a page out of their book. That being said, as a gay Catholic, I am equally disturbed by the Church's obsession with genitalia. I am disgusted by the sex abuse scandals. However, I also know that in my Church, where we had a GLBT group (no, not the "remain celibate group" called Courage) for 15 years. Another Church near me marches in the Gay Pride parade. I take my partner to Church all the time. Everyone knows about me, gay folks speak out all the time. Hell, even clergy at my Church are gay (yeah, I know...no surprise)...and openly so. So, the point is...before you lump all people into one camp, know your facts, show some humility.
Will I get the screeds about how the Church did thus and so and is still doing it and I should shut up or they should speak out? Yeah. But the fact, as I said, is that bigotry is bigotry, no matter where it comes from. Is the Church hierarchy banal and out of touch? Yes. Do many people that I know personally...even clergy see it that way? Yes. Those are the ones that I know. Do I have gay friends, old-timers who were mavens in the movement in 60s and 70s even see that marriage is just not something for gay people? Yes, I sure do.
Before I start rambling too much, let me say this. Demonizing a whole group because of the disagreements with the groups leadership and claiming to know how "they think" because you grew up as "one of them" is flat disgusting. I and all Catholics who agree with me are no more "just like the bishops" because we are all Catholic than I and those many Americans are "just like George Bush" because we are all Americans. In this issue, it seems to me we need to be building allies one person at a time...just like the Christian Coalition did for 40 years. Demonizing any person because they are part of a group will win you no converts. And, finally, for all those who say "then why aren't they speaking out if they disagree?" The fact is they are. They do it every day by living their lives, challenging their Pastors and Bishops...Joan Chittester, John McNeil, Bishop Gumbleton, Father Pfleger, Sister Helen Prejean and a number of LGBT priests who speak out for GLBT people as PEOPLE every day from the pulpit of their Churches. So...attack whom you must, but don't lump all Catholics in together. All of us kept begging our European, Canadian, Asian, etc. friends to do the same with us, as Americans, over the last 8 years.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
How do these churches partner up as political action committees while keeping their tax-exempt status? Somebody at the IRS is sound asleep.
CPL
· 1 year ago
No, they're too busy harassing Jeremiah Wright and the United Church of Christ, as opposed to going after obvious violaters of the tax-exempt status. <<<eye roll>>>
green_libertarian
· 1 year ago
Because the LAW says, like it or not, unless a church devotes a SUBSTANTIAL amount of their revenues to a political cause, they're still exempt.
gwyneth
· 1 year ago
But this doesn't necessarity mean that some other type of leglislation may come out of it. Maybe the IRS will see that they need to redefine some terms about how a substantial contribution is measured? I don't believe that all will be lost on that one, although it may take some time.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
I did not know that.
Happy_Housewife
· 1 year ago
My husband has a good friend who received quite a lot of money from the Mormons in exchange for keeping quiet about the sexual abuse he endured as a child. (He called it a settlement, but it's essentially hush money)
I got him quite vexed at me when I suggested that he donate some of that money to an organization that will help abused children. This guy made enough to pay off his house in Seattle, and buy a second house in the mountains, with quite a lot left over. It is a serious amount of money.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
How about that?
I didn't know the Mormons were Child Molesters.
Radardan
· 1 year ago
I think the more sophisticated point is not that Mormons are child molesters but that the church hierarchy has covered up many cases that have occurred. The church hierarchy has sexual problems which includes homophobia.
I guess i should read down to see if someone has already made my point before posting d'oh. ;-)
LowKey
· 1 year ago
The point isnt that mormons are all child molesters, they are not. The point is that as an organization they have covered up sexual assaults upon their members by their leaders.
Additionally, historically speaking, the church itself was founded by a man, who had sex with 14 year old girls when he was a 38 year old married man. The taking of teenage "brides" was discontinued in the early 20th century though.
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
Exactly. They covered up criminal activity. Why aren't their temples on the sex offenders listings?
shanobama
· 1 year ago
Not true. go to Colorado City or any fundie Mormon compound and you will see the child brides. The leader of the fundie cult was just thrown in jail afteer a long man hunt. The big Mormon church says they have nothing to do with the fundamentalists. We support these compounds because every woman in a group marriage can collect a welfare check as a single mother. Why this has not been shut down has a lot to do with the power of the mainstream Mormon church in Utah and Arizona.
LowKey
· 1 year ago
I was not clear. I was referring to the Mormon church that was responsible for funding the yes on H5 campaign. The LDS church. They stop practicing polygamy about 75 years ago. You are quite right that many mormon splinter groups still practice polygamy. But they are not the group that is fighting equal rights for gays. Many mormon fundies are actually pro-gay marriage.
CPL
· 1 year ago
I'm sorry, but if the Mormons don't like the close scrutiny they're getting, they shouldn't have decided to become politically active to the point their activism EARNED THEM THIS ATTENTION.
They can go cry in their milk and drink cans of STHU on this one.
iggy
· 1 year ago
"If they disagree with the stands that their leaders are taking, then they should stand up and say so publicly. "
And how do you know that aren't? Do you really think that every Catholic who disagrees with church teaching gets major press coverage.
There are TONS of Catholics publicly disagreeing. Even the well-known ones - like Joan Chittister and Andrew Greeley - aren't going to get news coverage. It's not news.
CPL
· 1 year ago
More than likely, anyone disagreeing with the stances of either church are probably being threatened with expulsion from said churches for disagreeing with them.
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
Mormons, probably. With catholics though, unless you're actually in the clergy, about the MINIMUM offense for excommunication is trying to kill a bishop.
iggy
· 1 year ago
I gave you a couple of names. You could at least look them up.
Excommunication is talked about a lot, but almost never happens.
shanobama
· 1 year ago
Where is Mitt Romney statement on this, and the social unrest it is causing all over America? If he was a REAL LEADER, he could have an impact.
Mittens is just as afraid of this church as everyone else who has ever been involved. It is a religion of manipulation and fear. The tales of women trying to escape this cult, and the young men kicked out as teens are very sad.
phaet2112
· 1 year ago
According to Wikipedia, 24.5% of Americans called themselves Roman Catholic in 2001, approximately 77 million people in 2003. Mormons have 13 million members, as previously stated. So maybe you are talking about a bloc of close to 100 million people. Keep on making assumptions and labeling them all as Nazi sympathizers and you'll never get any rights legislation passed.
Edit- damn should have been in reply, not as a new post...
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Who's your godfather?
LowKey
· 1 year ago
Mormons claim to have 13 million members WORLDWIDE, not in the US. Not only that, but their numbers are bogus. The actual figure is more like 7-8 million. They have approximately 4 million members in the US, about half of which are practicing mormons.
green_libertarian
· 1 year ago
Growth in the Mormon church has mostly been outside of the US, in the US membership is stable state. Overseas growth has been big, some 15-20% growth per year.
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
For Catholics and I am guessing Mormons, unless one goes through a formal procedure to apostate, they are still counted as being part of those organizations. My partner just did is apostate and the letter of warning he got from the bishop was pretty funny. But he pursued it and now, he is no longer counted as a Catholic. I am guessing that there are millions of ex-Catholics who have never done this, so they are still counted as being Catholic by the church. Oh, and you suck, Mormon troll. Go have sex with your nieces and/or count your wives.
gwyneth
· 1 year ago
Religious history as a whole has been steeped in fear and prejudice for a long time. The Mormons and The Catholics and a lot of other faiths too! But that didn't stop previous civil rights movements in the past.
No one is labeling anyone as a Nazi sympathizer. The point of that analogy is merely noting the similarities i.e. the Nazi's also won elections and ultimately removed a minority groups rights hence, the majority vote has done some scary things before in history. The Nazi's accomplished much of that through bombarding the German people with propaganda. It's an observation, not an accusation!
cosanostradamus
· 1 year ago
. Hunh. Coincidentally, they're also both opposed to Neil Young, or any foreign rocker who fails to show fealty. 63 this week, and still rockin' in the free world, no matter what the nut-jobs say. Enjoy! .
skeptic
· 1 year ago
FYI, out of 13 million plus Mormons, about 300 signed a petition opposing Prop 8. One hates to make generalizations, but with numbers like that, I don't feel so bad about it.
Prove it!
ndtovent
· 1 year ago
In addition to all this, the mormon lds looks the other way at forced plural marriages between the adult male cult leaders and underage girls . You should bring that up in one of these posts. Just more ammo.
LanceThruster
· 1 year ago
Since "Silence = Assent," the LDS hierarchy only tolerates gay scout leader/scout sex (and then only if it's kept quiet)? Catholic leadership actually blamed their sexual abuse cases on the homosexuals despite facts to the contrary.
The Mormon kids I grew up with (I was Catholic and met them through LDS neighbors) tended to overcompensate away from their parents by acting "butch" to counter the "goody two shoes" image.
Their clean-cut, holier than thou attitudes were often ridiculed as "gay" (in the sense that the slur meant "different") by my Catholic school mates.
Between the Catholic leadership wearing dresses, funny hats and gobs of accessories and the Mormon elders not being the type of guys you'd want to have a beer with, maybe both camps are taking "overcompensation" to its logical conclusion.
redneckliberalpostbush
· 1 year ago
Okay, that's IT! They, the evangelical Baptist nuts that rant at soldiers' funerals must be taxed. Folks, we need to remember from the BTK killer that a lot of evil people hide behind holy facades. He was doing his dirty sadistic stuff while a deacon in the Church, and remember, no one had a clue in his church for all those years. These misleaders seeking so much political control in our "democracy with written in separation of church and state" actually send their brainwash victims out to recruit more, work and send all their money in to creep into our government and become stronger. They use their "God" or their idea of God to corrupt our political process and want to rewrite our Constitution to actually destroy our freedom. TAX THE CHURCHES!
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
It's just the Phelps clan that protests funerals. EVERY other religion avoids any affiliation with them.
redneckliberalpostbush
· 1 year ago
hi, well, they are the extreme of the Baptists and more outspoken. I grew up in the Bible Belt here in TX and was molested at age 8 by a Baptist man. It does not matter, many "holy" right wingers like them hide behind a facade of religion and commit evil stuff. It's the way of pedophiles. Look at the GOP campaign of holy hate, look at the KKK, omg I could go on forever. ginger
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
The Phelpses aren't actually baptists.They just use that name. The government doesn't even consider them a religion. The Southern Poverty Law Center has them classified as a hate group. I'm not saying their views are any different from the other fundies, but let's not get our enemies mixed up.
EdA
· 1 year ago
This is a little tangent. Actually, rather than being a latecomer to attacking gay marriage, in a document whose authenticity has not been denied (in fact, some LDS members have been boasting of it), in 1997 the top leadership of the LDS started plotting to attack same-sex marriage -- and to shift the blame onto the Roman Catholic Church.
So much for things like integrity, taking personal responsibility, etc. I do not know what, if any, will be the outcome of the shakedown letters for cash that the LDS and others sent to opponents of Prop. 8. But the LDS does acknowledge that it did send the letters, and they did it by mail.
LawMichigander
· 1 year ago
Well they both love Moloch
Chino_Blanco
· 1 year ago
Here's another tangent:
Romney’s Ties to Marriott’s Porn and Mormonism Could Pose Problem for Iowa Social Conservatives
I particularly like the opener: "In this article, the planet Uranus is called "Chronos" for two reasons. First, it is a much better sounding name."
Wesinoregon
· 1 year ago
“The formation of families is central to the Creator’s plan,” WELL, where do they think gays come from? Families or hatched? These morons are as stupid as they come. And anyone who follows them is just as short sighted.
Chino_Blanco
· 1 year ago
Joseph Smith:
"With regard to elections, some say all the Latter-day Saints vote together, and vote as I say. But I never tell any man how to vote or whom to vote for. But I will show you how we have been situated by bringing a comparison. Should there be a Methodist society here and two candidates running for office, one says, 'If you will vote for me and put me in governor, I will exterminate the Methodists, take away their charters,' etc. The other candidate says, 'If I am governor, I will give all an equal privilege.' Which would the Methodists vote for? Of course they would vote en masse for the candidate that would give them their rights."
How sad is it that contemporary Mormons have now utterly failed to live up to their civic duty in the eyes of their original prophet?
jeffg166
· 1 year ago
All religions are cults. They all profess to have the true version of the true cult. The Catholics have been around 2000 years the Mormons 150. They're still both cults.
MoNoMo
· 1 year ago
I was raised Mormon, it’s basically do whatever the church says (including money) or you won’t go to the highest level of heaven.
“The President of the Church is the prophet, seer, and revelator who is authorized to direct the affairs of the Church throughout the earth. He speaks and acts under divine guidance from Jesus Christ, who is the head of the church.”
So, when the president told the sheep to follow – they did with big dollars. They do not question what the “prophet says. If any Mormon goes againts the church in public, they can be excommunicated from the church. They believe only Mormons “in good standing” will go to the highest level of heaven (they have three levels.)
Also, they DO NOT BELIEVE there is such a thing as a “gay person.” There are only people who may have “same-sex attraction” and make the choice to commit sin. Even my parents say they love me – they just don’t like what I do. I've been with my partner/spouse for 13 years. Sad……
MoNoMo
· 1 year ago
I have a sick sense of humor okay.
Seems Frank and Belinda Vadersloot have many interesting side businesses. I don’t know about you but this seems a little kinky to me. Groups, via private treaty?
Please be sure to boycott Frank and Belinda Vandersloot’s bull sperm and cow embryos.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
Dan Savage sort of sums it up today:
"When political attacks are launched from churches, political responses will be delivered to churches. If goddamned McDonald's had organized and paid for Prop 8, we'd be marching on goddamned McDonald's."
All Comments
Then there's this:
"VanderSloot also used his financial reserves in the fall of 1999 to propagandize his narrow-minded ideology in an advertising campaign aimed at attacking free speech. He took aim at Idaho Public Television (IPTV) when it planned to show “It’s Elementary,” a documentary that dared to show gays and lesbians as human beings to school children.
VanderSloot plastered his anti-gay propaganda on billboards around Idaho and promoted a campaign to strong-arm lawmakers to see things his way unless “It’s Elementary” was pulled from the public airwaves."
http://www.pridedepot.com/modules/wordpress/?p=...
It was a win/win for the fundies and Catholics; the Mormons put in the money and are taking the heat. And, when school starts, the popular kid will start picking on the unpopular kid again.
"Eric Goldman at the Technology and Marketing Law Blog chronicles a case involving multi-level marketing/health products company Melaleuca, its CEO Frank VanderSloot, and an Idaho political blogger that goes by the pseudonym Tom Paine.
At the 43rdstateblues blog, Paine posted the details of an unconfirmed rumor saying that VanderSloot had paid off controversial Idaho Senator Larry Craig (which is rather hilarious in itself, considering VanderSloot's full-page anti-gay advertisements).
But it's understandable that VanderSloot would want to dispel and remove a rumor if untrue, and it was redacted eventually.
Another blogger, "d2", according to Goldman, posted the cease-and-desist letter sent to 43rdstateblues that alleged defamation and demanded the rumor post be taken down. But before the letter was sent, counsel for Melaleuca registered a copyright for the letter."
http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2007/12/19/ca...
I say, investigate the hell out of these douche bags and bring the dirt into the light so that everyone can see for themselves just how disgusting these people really are with their cult. Anyone who reads the true history of Joseph Smith will realize that he was a total con artist and grifter.
As for the Catholic church, they are a corrupt organization that has been ripping off the world for two thousand years. I left that church at 12, because even at that young age I realized that something was not right nor was there truth to be had. Needless to say that my father was shocked (or at least he acted shocked) but I stood by my guns and have never set foot in any spot remotely associated with them. A criminal outfit.
Bravo!!!
http://www.amazon.com/Murder-Vatican-Revolution...
Anyone not believing the institutional RC Church (emphatically, not the Catholic faith, but the institutional church, that multi-national business here on planet Earth headquartered in Vatican City) is not totally and utterly corrupt need only go to www.bishop-accountability.org and read of past and ongoing obscenities committed in the name of maintaining the status quo.
For daily updates on this sick sick organized criminal enterprise, daily reading at www.bishop-accountability.org/AbuseTracker is recommended. This page includes criminality in ALL religions. NB: HAVE BARF BAG AT READY!
What bothers me more is that every state and national press organization should have come to that young reporter's defense. Unfortunately, for far too long these institutional "churches" have propagated a special privilege that somehow often keeps them from being properly investigated. Heck - after over 10,000 of covered-up child sexual abuse are any Roman Catholic churches listed on the sex offender's directories?
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2000-02-10/news/...
Betcha it would pass!!
Revenge is sweet.
But he finally got his due on this earthly plane after running over a pedestrian, killing him, and then calmly driving to his "bishoply" residence. Unfortunately, his car still showed the human dents of killing someone. His explanation? He thought he ran over a dog (but still did not stop).
Read about his early pederastic coverups here:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1993-09-08/news/...
Back in the 1970s, the Scouting program was melded with the LDS Church's "priesthood" to the point that in order to have a certain position within a Scout troop, one had to hold the "priesthood" in the LDS Church. Thing is, at that time, if you were black, you could not hold that position in an LDS troop, because you couldn't hold the priesthood because of your race. There was a lawsuit over that, as you can imagine, and the "priesthood" became decoupled from the LDS scout troops.
While the other churches that take part in US Scouting have their share of guilt in the current bigotry expressed towards gay and atheist scouts and leaders, the overwhelming control is with the LDS church. I am serious...Scouting would collapse without Mormons.
And the Morman stake presidets (or whatever) decide who is going to be an adult scout leader. So you do have people involved who don't necessarily want to be there, but were told to do so.
And yes, I do think that the Scouting program would be much poorer, more diminished in stature and probably open to not being snots about gays and atheists if it weren't for the Mormon influence and money.
We need to organize as a group and keep up the pressure on the whole country. Enough is enough.
See MILK when it comes out on November 28th.
It's time to revisit the idea of tax exemptions for churches.
I don't know how these things are put together but it seems to me that we need to do more than grouse about getting screwed again by the majority. Any ideas about this?
Lines like
"...If I know one thing about Catholics, they don't like being linked with cults -- and most Catholics think the Mormons are a cult. That may sound harsh, but I grew up Catholic and I know how Catholics think. "
and
" The Catholics don't have much spare cash these days because they've spent hundreds of millions to settle sex abuse cases."
and
"We know how widespread the Catholic problem is." (Seriously- you couldn't phrase this line better? I know it references the sex abuse scandal, but honestly- take a second to read before posting)
unnecessarily tie in decisions by Catholic and Mormon hierarchy with lay people who practice or grew up as part of that religion. What about parishes who have open attitudes towards GLBT parishoners? What about Mormons who didn't give money and didn't support the Mormon leadership's stance on Prop 8? This kind of post gives people an excuse to harbor intolerance towards Mormons and Catholics solely based on their religion, and is especially ignorant and inexcusable coming in reference to Prop 8.
this kind of attitude reminds me of the German's who disagreed with the Nazi policies early on but kept their mouths shut. All the Mormon's and Catholic's that did not support this terrible vote should have screamed loud and clear. You obviously have never been gay bashed or thrown out of a job because of who you are.
Either you have integrity or you don't but you can't have it both ways. I find anyone who would deny another their basic rights as human beings as being despicable. I don't care what their religious beliefs are or how offended they are. After you have been beaten by 6 grown men simply for walking down the street, you come back and tell be about your little diatribe above.
lame statistic.
The bottom line is that we need to counter individuals, for whatever
their reasons, that would deny us all a place at the communal table of
society because of their conditioned opinions. To do otherwise is a slap
in the face of democracy.
Best
----- Original Message -----
From: Disqus
To: maleko@innocent.com
Subject: [americablog] Re: The unholy Catholic-Mormon alliance isn't
limited to gay bashing. They share a history of covering up sex abuse
of children.
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 02:24:02 -0000
Look - Prop H8 or NOT, we have a whole list of grievances against these institutions. Who pays for the ex-gay subsidiaries operating from those churches? Don't the Mormons have their own reeducation camp for gays? And where does that funding come from?
The fact is that they were better. They organized better, they gave more money. You win by winning hearts and minds. You win by taking a page out of their book. That being said, as a gay Catholic, I am equally disturbed by the Church's obsession with genitalia. I am disgusted by the sex abuse scandals. However, I also know that in my Church, where we had a GLBT group (no, not the "remain celibate group" called Courage) for 15 years. Another Church near me marches in the Gay Pride parade. I take my partner to Church all the time. Everyone knows about me, gay folks speak out all the time. Hell, even clergy at my Church are gay (yeah, I know...no surprise)...and openly so. So, the point is...before you lump all people into one camp, know your facts, show some humility.
Will I get the screeds about how the Church did thus and so and is still doing it and I should shut up or they should speak out? Yeah. But the fact, as I said, is that bigotry is bigotry, no matter where it comes from. Is the Church hierarchy banal and out of touch? Yes. Do many people that I know personally...even clergy see it that way? Yes. Those are the ones that I know. Do I have gay friends, old-timers who were mavens in the movement in 60s and 70s even see that marriage is just not something for gay people? Yes, I sure do.
Before I start rambling too much, let me say this. Demonizing a whole group because of the disagreements with the groups leadership and claiming to know how "they think" because you grew up as "one of them" is flat disgusting. I and all Catholics who agree with me are no more "just like the bishops" because we are all Catholic than I and those many Americans are "just like George Bush" because we are all Americans. In this issue, it seems to me we need to be building allies one person at a time...just like the Christian Coalition did for 40 years. Demonizing any person because they are part of a group will win you no converts. And, finally, for all those who say "then why aren't they speaking out if they disagree?" The fact is they are. They do it every day by living their lives, challenging their Pastors and Bishops...Joan Chittester, John McNeil, Bishop Gumbleton, Father Pfleger, Sister Helen Prejean and a number of LGBT priests who speak out for GLBT people as PEOPLE every day from the pulpit of their Churches. So...attack whom you must, but don't lump all Catholics in together. All of us kept begging our European, Canadian, Asian, etc. friends to do the same with us, as Americans, over the last 8 years.
I got him quite vexed at me when I suggested that he donate some of that money to an organization that will help abused children. This guy made enough to pay off his house in Seattle, and buy a second house in the mountains, with quite a lot left over. It is a serious amount of money.
I didn't know the Mormons were Child Molesters.
They exhibit what I call the Jimmy Swaggart Syndrome:
http://www.radardan.com/Swaggart.html
Additionally, historically speaking, the church itself was founded by a man, who had sex with 14 year old girls when he was a 38 year old married man. The taking of teenage "brides" was discontinued in the early 20th century though.
They can go cry in their milk and drink cans of STHU on this one.
And how do you know that aren't? Do you really think that every Catholic who disagrees with church teaching gets major press coverage.
There are TONS of Catholics publicly disagreeing. Even the well-known ones - like Joan Chittister and Andrew Greeley - aren't going to get news coverage. It's not news.
Excommunication is talked about a lot, but almost never happens.
Mittens is just as afraid of this church as everyone else who has ever been involved. It is a religion of manipulation and fear. The tales of women trying to escape this cult, and the young men kicked out as teens are very sad.
Edit- damn should have been in reply, not as a new post...
No one is labeling anyone as a Nazi sympathizer. The point of that analogy is merely noting the similarities i.e. the Nazi's also won elections and ultimately removed a minority groups rights hence, the majority vote has done some scary things before in history. The Nazi's accomplished much of that through bombarding the German people with propaganda. It's an observation, not an accusation!
Hunh. Coincidentally, they're also both opposed to Neil Young, or any foreign rocker who fails to show fealty. 63 this week, and still rockin' in the free world, no matter what the nut-jobs say. Enjoy!
.
Prove it!
The Mormon kids I grew up with (I was Catholic and met them through LDS neighbors) tended to overcompensate away from their parents by acting "butch" to counter the "goody two shoes" image.
Their clean-cut, holier than thou attitudes were often ridiculed as "gay" (in the sense that the slur meant "different") by my Catholic school mates.
Between the Catholic leadership wearing dresses, funny hats and gobs of accessories and the Mormon elders not being the type of guys you'd want to have a beer with, maybe both camps are taking "overcompensation" to its logical conclusion.
These misleaders seeking so much political control in our "democracy with written in separation of church and state" actually send their brainwash victims out to recruit more, work and send all their money in to creep into our government and become stronger. They use their "God" or their idea of God to corrupt our political process and want to rewrite our Constitution to actually destroy our freedom.
TAX THE CHURCHES!
well, they are the extreme of the Baptists and more outspoken. I grew up in the Bible Belt here in TX and was molested at age 8 by a Baptist man. It does not matter, many "holy" right wingers like them hide behind a facade of religion and commit evil stuff. It's the way of pedophiles. Look at the GOP campaign of holy hate, look at the KKK, omg I could go on forever.
ginger
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/...
So much for things like integrity, taking personal responsibility, etc. I do not know what, if any, will be the outcome of the shakedown letters for cash that the LDS and others sent to opponents of Prop. 8. But the LDS does acknowledge that it did send the letters, and they did it by mail.
Romney’s Ties to Marriott’s Porn and Mormonism Could Pose Problem for Iowa Social Conservatives
http://iowaindependent.com/560/romneys-ties-to-...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/...
"Uranus Testifies of Christ"
http://www.meridianmagazine.com/sci_rel/040618u...
"With regard to elections, some say all the Latter-day Saints vote together, and vote as I say. But I never tell any man how to vote or whom to vote for. But I will show you how we have been situated by bringing a comparison. Should there be a Methodist society here and two candidates running for office, one says, 'If you will vote for me and put me in governor, I will exterminate the Methodists, take away their charters,' etc. The other candidate says, 'If I am governor, I will give all an equal privilege.' Which would the Methodists vote for? Of course they would vote en masse for the candidate that would give them their rights."
How sad is it that contemporary Mormons have now utterly failed to live up to their civic duty in the eyes of their original prophet?
Mormons believe they have a living prophet. From: http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/President_of_the_C...
“The President of the Church is the prophet, seer, and revelator who is authorized to direct the affairs of the Church throughout the earth. He speaks and acts under divine guidance from Jesus Christ, who is the head of the church.”
So, when the president told the sheep to follow – they did with big dollars. They do not question what the “prophet says. If any Mormon goes againts the church in public, they can be excommunicated from the church. They believe only Mormons “in good standing” will go to the highest level of heaven (they have three levels.)
Also, they DO NOT BELIEVE there is such a thing as a “gay person.” There are only people who may have “same-sex attraction” and make the choice to commit sin. Even my parents say they love me – they just don’t like what I do. I've been with my partner/spouse for 13 years. Sad……
Seems Frank and Belinda Vadersloot have many interesting side businesses. I don’t know about you but this seems a little kinky to me. Groups, via private treaty?
http://www.riverbendranch.us/private_treaty.html
Please be sure to boycott Frank and Belinda Vandersloot’s bull sperm and cow embryos.
"When political attacks are launched from churches, political responses will be delivered to churches. If goddamned McDonald's had organized and paid for Prop 8, we'd be marching on goddamned McDonald's."