I live in New York City and was at the Farley Post Office Wednesday evening to mail in my Federal, State, and City tax returns. This is the main branch at 33rd and 8th opposite Madison Square Garden. I've gone there on tax day in years past, and it's often a kind of crazy circus of last minute filers and merry pranksterish protesters. Yesterday it was more subdued and business-like than I remember. But what really struck me was seeing the cross section of Americans earnestly (or anxiously) filling out their forms and standing patiently in lines to post them. USPS staff were around answering questions and keeping order. It was around 8:30 p.m. and there was a harried, slightly frenzied atmosphere -- the true procrastinators were yet to come. But in my experience last night, people were polite, considerate, and friendly -- with a sense that after all we were all feeling the same pain. No one was hostile, angry or in your face. To me this was the real America -- the many law-abiding citizens doing their civic duty -- even an unpleasant civic duty. Not those sadly disgruntled standing in the rain hurling tea bags and ranting incoherently about unfair taxes -- incited to hatred by a truly dangerous coalition of irresponsible politicians and hypocritical celebrities of the right-wing media.
LuZenMyMnd
· 7 months ago
For me, watching the footage and looking at the different signs were just sad. I honestly believe the US is moving in the right direction, but the Pure Hatred on display by the GOP and the Texas Governor was disturbing. His rhetoric rose to the point of talking secession! As MUCH as Bush and Cheney did to disenfranchise the US from other nations, there was NO talk of secession.
I sincerely thank God that their hatred is a minority. And that there are so many of us from so many different backgrounds that have united around a common cause. Seeing that our country recovers.
It absolutely astonishes me that some would rather attempt to go it alone rather than work together. It's mind-blowing and so far removed from the norm to watch these people with their angry racist signs say they speak for America. That America is past. I pray we keep them the minority.
bob_h
· 7 months ago
There was a protest along the waterfront in New Haven yesterday. They looked very much drawn from the lower social orders-some Hell's Angels types among them. The very people who are having their taxes lowered by Obama, and who are the intended recipients of stimulus support. This does the image of the Republicans no good.
SCLiberal
· 7 months ago
I heard someone yesterday refer to the parties as "Milli Vanilli" events. Had to laugh at the accuracy of that: dupes mouthing the platitudes of the billionaires that funded the events.
Grucker
· 7 months ago
Reminded me of last year's McCain/Palin campaign rally.
Mark in Florida
· 7 months ago
Very much so.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 7 months ago
it's a very complex time in the US and i doubt there are any historical precedents to learn from. a confused, racist right-wing fringe whipped into a frenzy by mega-rich, washed-up ex-pols and mega-rich, reactionary religious leaders. secessionist hysteria. anti-immigrant hysteria. mass media outlets joining in to connect and facilitate them. economic depression and crumbling infrastructure. remedies sabotaged by mega-rich, unproductive for-profit institutions. poisonous political dialogue. does this blow over?
LuZenMyMnd
· 7 months ago
I can't help but think if President Obama were white that these crazies would at least respect the OFFICE of the Presidency.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 7 months ago
in a way it's comforting to understand that the protests are 90% racism. racism is what we expected from the day obama announced his candicacy. this is how it plays out.
BuryMeKnot
· 7 months ago
You can mock the protestors all you want, but keep this in mind.
The Democratic Congress and the Obama administration have QUADRUPLED the deficit in one year. You can tax the rich 100% and it won't pay for it.
That leaves the harsh economic reality that every President has eventually learned:
* there aren't enough rich people to cover the budget * the poor have no money * only the middle class is a large enough, wealthy enough base for raising lots of money
So . . . if you make more than $75,000 a year, your taxes are going to substantially increase before 2012.
And please don't counter this argument with Obama's campaign promise about "$250,000". If you believe campaign promises from ANY politician, you are naive.
Anonymous
· 7 months ago
Watch out for inflation.
red_dwarf
· 7 months ago
Bury - I agree, lots of work to be done. Here's an idea.
Let's start by passing a law making it illegal for corporations to establish BS subsidiaries in the carribbean and elsewhere thereby avoiding paying over $100 billion in taxes every year.
When big dick Cheney was Pres of Haliburton he personally oversaw the establishment of >40 off-shore subsidiaries with the goal of avoiding taxes. Corporations are, under law, people. Let's treat 'em that way.
To allow this practice to continue is a slap in the face of those who gave their lives for freedom - I think you would agree.
50% of the wealth of this country is in the hands of 1% of Americans. By any definition this is not equality nor justice. Free Market does not mean unfettered and unbounded profits. The sovereign's welfare is and should always be first consideration - of course we are a long way from there.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 7 months ago
it was clear when bush sabotaged the economy with high-end tax cuts and a trillion dollar war of adventure that taxes would have to go up. it would have been much easier to fix this in 2004 but we lost that opportunity. when you ignore national infrastructure the way bush did, you don't save money. it just gets more expensive later on. i wish we could double tax everyone who voted for those miscreants.
smoke 'em if you got 'em
· 7 months ago
By all means Bury, just ignore all that weak and stupid did to destroy the country and divide its people. We all know everything was just peachy until a couple of months ago when the new guy took over and created all of the problems we're currently having... JEESH, wadda maroon...
taodon
· 7 months ago
Out of curiosity, did tax-payer funded maintenance crews have to clean up the tax-payer funded parks after these anti-tax tea parties? Or did these individuals show how responsible they were?
duchessofbilgewater
· 7 months ago
To say nothing of the tax-payer funded roads and bridges they used to get there and the tax-payer funded police protection they were no doubt provided with. And how much of MY tax dollars have to be spent on that little robot that had to inspect the package that some yutz threw over the White House fence?
duchessofbilgewater
· 7 months ago
I forgot to say "harumph."
red_dwarf
· 7 months ago
The rePigs have taken pathetic to a new low - or maybe not - perhaps they've always been there.
Amy G. had a great show yesterday on the history of Pacific Radio, the first non-commercial Free Speech station which went on air in 1951 in San Francisco.
One of the original broadcasters referred to the republicans that came on their radio talk-show as whiners - unlike progressives of the times republicans were so cock sure of their righteousness that they were "...easily pinned down by argument afterwhich they would get angry and child like in their behavior."
Nothing has changed.
Older_Wiser
· 7 months ago
What's very sad and disturbing is that these mostly working class types who attended those demos don't realize they have been punked by the wealthy and what's left of the "intelligentsia" of the Rethug Party who wouldn't even recognize them in everyday life and have just as much consideration for them, too--like using them to disseminate rightwing lies and using their insecurities to foment hatred of others.
Seems to me that there's a lot of work to be done if justice and equality are to win over more of the downtrodden and oppressed instead of leaving them to the mockery of both the right and the left. This is where liberals fall down--there's a huge difference in the thinking of some poor slob who's just trying to get along and has no power and has a constant feeling of impotence, and the rich Rethug who makes policy and with whom liberals lunch and call "friend."
Jophus
· 7 months ago
You think it is sad that are being duped? I think it is sad our party hasn't been able to show them effectively that they are being taken advantage of. It is just as much our fault that this happens as it is theirs.
The South Bend Trib. had a picture of a women with a pink nose. Believe me she did not need the nose to show she was a pig.
Gary W. Priester
· 7 months ago
There teabaggers have very short memories. Or selective memories at best.
grandma
· 7 months ago
NYTimes:
Comments of the Moment
“ They say America is the land of the free, but since I moved to Germany 5 years ago, I feel considerably more free than I did in the U.S. Why? Because I don't have to worry about someone shooting me. ”
Reminds me of a letter to the editor of the International Herald Tribune that I read many years ago when I lived in Europe. A Paris resident explained that she didn't mind paying the high taxes because it meant she could go out in the evening and wear her good jewelry and not be afraid of being mugged.
steve
· 7 months ago
Whats with all the GOP bashing here? I thought they were irrelevant? I'd like to see more issue driven debate, especially in regards to foreign policy. Do we strike at Somalia? How has Obama handled North Korea? And maybe a little media bashing is warranted too (Obama's dog...really people).
There's another angle to the teabagging events that also can't be overlooked. The rampant use of Nazi and Hitler references as analogies for Obama and his policies. One sign actually read: "Taxpayers Are The Jews for Obama's Ovens."
And the outrage is...where????
Remember when MoveOn took all that shit because someone posted a 30second ad that made a Nazi reference? It was part of a contest and MoveOn removed it almost immediately, but that was enough to ignite a firestorm on the right. I'm surprised Democrats in Congress didn't call for a resolution condemning it, like they did over the "General Betray Us" ad.
Oh, and it would be interesting to count how many tiimes O'Reilly and Hannity make Nazi references. I've heard many (O'Reilly seems particularly attracted to Goebbels references).
To recap: It's perfectly fine for Republicans to use the worst forms of Nazi/Hitler references towards Democrats, but if a Democrat makes even a fleeting reference, they get pilloried.
-
smoke 'em if you got 'em
· 7 months ago
I loathed the shaved monkey Daddy's bought and paid for whore appointed to be resident last time around, but he was the worst EVER and set out to prove it day after day for eight years. Sad to think ignorance is blinding so many low IQ morons these days.
Mark in Florida
· 7 months ago
I am always shocked by the abject ignorance of the extreme bomb throwing right. In watching some of the interviews w/ the average right wing 'joes', I realized they truly do not have a clue of what the original Boston Tea Party was about. It was a revolt against mulit-national companies and taxing without representation.
The real Boston Tea Party was a protest against huge corporate tax cuts for the British East India Company, the largest trans-national corporation then in existence.
So I find it striking that the very people out there in full blown ignorance of the facts were really protesting something they are actually for. They love them some Wal-Mart, and unfettered, unregulated capitolism. Just the opposite of the Boston Tea Party.
What a collection of fools. Besides, the last I checked (unless you live in Minnesota) We all have two senators, and a representitive.
The right wing is truly unraveling before our eyes, and I LOVE it.
Jophus
· 7 months ago
Your comment really makes me sad. You see a bunch of ignorant idiots, and I see a bunch of potential voters. While you sit there and love it, they are getting more organized to potentially do some real damage. Democrats need to get off their high horse, and try to actually show these people what they are fighting for. Like you said, they don't know, and if we'd stop laughing and show them, we would be more successful in all our causes.
Hysan
· 7 months ago
Jophus, you're assuming many of these people can be reached by liberal or progressive attitudes. Many of them don't realize the true conservatives of the past would be disgusted by the current GOP. This "high horse" you're talking about doesn't exist. As far as doing real damage, that's already been done...our current president is _trying to fix it._
Jophus
· 7 months ago
Fair enough, but i don't even see an effort anywhere to try. I still see many many democrats laughing at and making fun of their followers for being ignorant. 90 percent of them may be a lost cause (which I don't believe) but that still leaves a 10 percent margin.
Hysan
· 7 months ago
The more I think about this idea, the more I have to concede that you're right.
The problem is, it is too important to some on the left and the right to keep people fighting.
Jophus
· 7 months ago
Thanks, man. I'm totally flattered that one of my thoughts lingered in someone else's mind for even a second beyond the time it took to read.
As for the GOP, for me it's like hitting a deer with a car and just watching it hobble around trying to get up, behind your car. It's pathetic to see and you want to try and save it from certain death if you can. Leave it to a liberal to feel the urge to help their opponent recover. ha!
(Shhhhh) I smoked a little bit before writing this.
Mark in Florida
· 7 months ago
I agree with you completely. We do need to get off of our butts and get involved. Because these insane people are on school boards taughting creationism, etc. But before you get too freaked out by these people, realize that I truly do believe that with every generation progression and movement occurs. When this happens the right wing must adapt. And they are terrible at that. Their very ideoligy dictates stagnation, not progression. This is why they will eventually fail. And always eventually fail. Do we rest on that truth? No, of course not.
I am personally out there in the trenches. All too often, at least here in Florida it seems the gay comunity in particular is here for the sunshine and the party. Meanwhile these right wing extremist are activily stripping us of basic human rights. You are right, it is very sad indeed. And we do all need to wake up.
Jophus
· 7 months ago
I used to be one of those gay guys enjoying the sunshine in Miami.... Man, I miss it.
About the generation thing, I truly feel that the real progress is going to come when my generation is in power and the people in power now are retired or dead. My generation doesn't care about Gays, Pot, and we all ACTUALLY want reusable energy. I hope it all happens before then though.
Mark in Florida
· 7 months ago
There has always been an undercurrent of hatred, bigotry, intollerence and anti-intellectualism seething just below the surface of the GOP. It is just now rearing it's ugly head. And it will grow as Boss Limpballs (head teabagger) and Glenn Beck and his ilk continue to drive the republican party into the ground.
They are looking more and more out of touch and irrelevant. Essentially they have put shock jocks on TV, and thus are turning the GOP into a sideshow.
mavis
· 7 months ago
Wow. You people are really clueless. These gatherings were not organized by the GOP. There were democrats, republicans, independents, libertarians....Americans. They are not protesting any one party, they are protesting the outrageous spending done by both the Republican and Democratic parties. Most recently, the Democratic, because that is the majority party in office. There has been only 1 network that has covered these events accurately. Only 1 and that's FOX. They don't deny that they lean to the right. What's fascinating; however, is that the mainstream media still pretends that they don't lean so far to the left that it's almost a full circle. And apparetnly, that's the only news anyone every sees. The ONLY question you should be asking yourself here, is: after all your anger to the GOP subsides, are you REALLY happy with how your money is being spent? Are you happy with amount that is being spent (you may not be able to answer this question just yet, because the real tax increases have not started to pay for all this. But you will pay) Do you even KNOW where the money is going? Because if you do, hats off to you....you probably read more of the Stimulus package than anyone who voted for it.
mavis
· 7 months ago
Wow. You people are really clueless. These gatherings were not organized by the GOP. There were democrats, republicans, independents, libertarians....Americans. They are not protesting any one party, they are protesting the outrageous spending done by both the Republican and Democratic parties. Most recently, the Democratic, because that is the majority party in office. There has been only 1 network that has covered these events accurately. Only 1 and that's FOX. They don't deny that they lean to the right. What's fascinating; however, is that the mainstream media still pretends that they don't lean so far to the left that it's almost a full circle. And apparetnly, that's the only news anyone every sees. The ONLY question you should be asking yourself here, is: after all your anger to the GOP subsides, are you REALLY happy with how your money is being spent? Are you happy with amount that is being spent (you may not be able to answer this question just yet, because the real tax increases have not started to pay for all this. But you will pay) Do you even KNOW where the money is going? Because if you do, hats off to you....you probably read more of the Stimulus package than anyone who voted for it.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 7 months ago
the only news anyone sees? FOX broke all records this week with 3 million viewers, double the next most popular cable news outlet. if you think these are democratic protests, watch this short video: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/4/16/721... and your premise about the motivation is laughable. george bush doubled the national debt to 10 trillion and put us into a deep recession (requiring emergency government spending under obama). where were the pretesters while bush was doubling our debt?
hashup
· 7 months ago
In recent days I've heard mention of another tea bag party in the works for July fourth. I for one think the time has come to show FoxNews and the radiogaga's what a grass roots movement really looks like.
threadmonitor
· 7 months ago
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All Comments
I sincerely thank God that their hatred is a minority. And that there are so many of us from so many different backgrounds that have united around a common cause. Seeing that our country recovers.
It absolutely astonishes me that some would rather attempt to go it alone rather than work together. It's mind-blowing and so far removed from the norm to watch these people with their angry racist signs say they speak for America. That America is past. I pray we keep them the minority.
The Democratic Congress and the Obama administration have QUADRUPLED the deficit in one year. You can tax the rich 100% and it won't pay for it.
That leaves the harsh economic reality that every President has eventually learned:
* there aren't enough rich people to cover the budget
* the poor have no money
* only the middle class is a large enough, wealthy enough base for raising lots of money
So . . . if you make more than $75,000 a year, your taxes are going to substantially increase before 2012.
And please don't counter this argument with Obama's campaign promise about "$250,000". If you believe campaign promises from ANY politician, you are naive.
Let's start by passing a law making it illegal for corporations to establish BS subsidiaries in the carribbean and elsewhere thereby avoiding paying over $100 billion in taxes every year.
When big dick Cheney was Pres of Haliburton he personally oversaw the establishment of >40 off-shore subsidiaries with the goal of avoiding taxes. Corporations are, under law, people. Let's treat 'em that way.
To allow this practice to continue is a slap in the face of those who gave their lives for freedom - I think you would agree.
50% of the wealth of this country is in the hands of 1% of Americans. By any definition this is not equality nor justice. Free Market does not mean unfettered and unbounded profits. The sovereign's welfare is and should always be first consideration - of course we are a long way from there.
Amy G. had a great show yesterday on the history of Pacific Radio, the first non-commercial Free Speech station which went on air in 1951 in San Francisco.
One of the original broadcasters referred to the republicans that came on their radio talk-show as whiners - unlike progressives of the times republicans were so cock sure of their righteousness that they were "...easily pinned down by argument afterwhich they would get angry and child like in their behavior."
Nothing has changed.
Seems to me that there's a lot of work to be done if justice and equality are to win over more of the downtrodden and oppressed instead of leaving them to the mockery of both the right and the left. This is where liberals fall down--there's a huge difference in the thinking of some poor slob who's just trying to get along and has no power and has a constant feeling of impotence, and the rich Rethug who makes policy and with whom liberals lunch and call "friend."
via Ambinder:
Here's a preliminary rundown of crowd estimates:
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/04/tea_par...
Comments of the Moment
“ They say America is the land of the free, but since I moved to Germany 5 years ago, I feel considerably more free than I did in the U.S. Why? Because I don't have to worry about someone shooting me. ”
http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/the-gu...
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/how-many...
And the outrage is...where????
Remember when MoveOn took all that shit because someone posted a 30second ad that made a Nazi reference? It was part of a contest and MoveOn removed it almost immediately, but that was enough to ignite a firestorm on the right. I'm surprised Democrats in Congress didn't call for a resolution condemning it, like they did over the "General Betray Us" ad.
Oh, and it would be interesting to count how many tiimes O'Reilly and Hannity make Nazi references. I've heard many (O'Reilly seems particularly attracted to Goebbels references).
To recap: It's perfectly fine for Republicans to use the worst forms of Nazi/Hitler references towards Democrats, but if a Democrat makes even a fleeting reference, they get pilloried.
-
The real Boston Tea Party was a protest against huge corporate tax cuts for the British East India Company, the largest trans-national corporation then in existence.
So I find it striking that the very people out there in full blown ignorance of the facts were really protesting something they are actually for. They love them some Wal-Mart, and unfettered, unregulated capitolism. Just the opposite of the Boston Tea Party.
What a collection of fools. Besides, the last I checked (unless you live in Minnesota) We all have two senators, and a representitive.
The right wing is truly unraveling before our eyes, and I LOVE it.
The problem is, it is too important to some on the left and the right to keep people fighting.
As for the GOP, for me it's like hitting a deer with a car and just watching it hobble around trying to get up, behind your car. It's pathetic to see and you want to try and save it from certain death if you can. Leave it to a liberal to feel the urge to help their opponent recover. ha!
(Shhhhh) I smoked a little bit before writing this.
I am personally out there in the trenches. All too often, at least here in Florida it seems the gay comunity in particular is here for the sunshine and the party. Meanwhile these right wing extremist are activily stripping us of basic human rights. You are right, it is very sad indeed. And we do all need to wake up.
About the generation thing, I truly feel that the real progress is going to come when my generation is in power and the people in power now are retired or dead. My generation doesn't care about Gays, Pot, and we all ACTUALLY want reusable energy. I hope it all happens before then though.
They are looking more and more out of touch and irrelevant. Essentially they have put shock jocks on TV, and thus are turning the GOP into a sideshow.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/4/16/721...
and your premise about the motivation is laughable. george bush doubled the national debt to 10 trillion and put us into a deep recession (requiring emergency government spending under obama). where were the pretesters while bush was doubling our debt?
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