Who (and what) influenced Jay Rockefeller, Steny Hoyer, and the rest of the cave-in dems? Money, this time as represented by AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon and the GOP--the usual influences, in other words.
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
What about Obama's position? Did anyone see his press conference last evening? I watched the whole thing, being sidelined for a few days by a biopsy (doesn't look like cancer, thankfully).
Obama said he's for the bill because it requires the FISA court to approve all...and the immunity for the telecoms is worth giving because of that. Is he right? I was also a bit disturbed by his agreement with the conservatives on the SC on the child rape death penalty issue as well. Where is he going with all this--total political gain?
lynchie
· 1 year ago
Good questions Joe. and I agree with Helena----follow the money. It ends up a lot cheaper to dump some money in the Congressmen's pockets than trying to fight a no winner in court. The corruption and total disregard for the American people will not change when the Dems control Congress and the White HOuse. They continue to consider themselves elite and do nothing for America,
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
I can go with the fact that nothing really changes, but I can't buy into the dems as considering themselves elite by themselves. Why not blanket the entire group, both pubs and dems?
lynchie
· 1 year ago
That was my intent, but i worded it poorly. They all arrive in Washington and sell out to the corporations and lobbyists. They forget who put them there the minute they get elected. We are represented by no one.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
It's more than just money.
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
Go Joe!
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
This is an excellent follow up Joe. I'd love to, for once, get the inside story of how all of this happens...over and over again.
bumpkis
· 1 year ago
With Hoyer the leader of the pack of Israeli Firsters in the House, you need to ask?
If lawsuits were permitted against telecommunications firms, the discovery process may have resulted in details being unearthed about the extent of Israel's involvement in federal wiretapping and illegal surveillance of Americans.
AMDOCS?? COMVERSE INFOSYS??
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
Good point. And did anyone miss the report that Israel wants the US to attack Iran? I guess Olmert is trying to avoid prosecution for the investigation into his corruption...so.
interlude
· 1 year ago
do the democrats stand for anything? talking heads say the dems "caved" on FISA, but in order to "cave" you have to have said somewhere you stand for something, you have to value something. not sure "cave" is the right word for a party that seems to not know what it values. Clintonism has triumphed.
bumpkis
· 1 year ago
In recent years, the FBI and other government agencies have investigated Amdocs more than once. The firm has repeatedly and adamantly denied any security breaches or wrongdoing. But sources tell Fox News that in 1999, the super secret national security agency, headquartered in northern Maryland, issued what's called a Top Secret sensitive compartmentalized information report, TS/SCI, warning that records of calls in the United States were getting into foreign hands – in Israel, in particular.
Transcript part 2 from before FOXNEWS went belly up as a news organization. 4 Part series scrubbed from the web but can still be found if you know where to look.
ruthlessgravity
· 1 year ago
What are the facts on this issue? I still can't get my head around it or why anyone cares outside of Washington.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
I'm not sure that many do.
I think the government should be spying, as long as there are FISA checks over the process, and most Americans probably feel the same way.
It's the telecom immunity that bothers me, though I'm probably in the minority there. I'm sure most Americans just think the telecoms were being "good Americans" or some bullshit..
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
i agree. i think immunity is dangerous to the extreme. if the telecoms violated the law in the past, they should be held accountable. they shouldn't be retroactively immune. going forward with new protections is fine, but why absolve them for what they did before....unless they made you an offer you can't refu$e?
ruthlessgravity
· 1 year ago
My issue is that if the government came to the telcos and said that they needed to cooperate to help fight terrorism, how are they responsible. If a personnel came to them from the FBI or NSA and pulled some Patriot Act bullshit out of their ass, how would they know what to do?
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
some telecoms said no, that's illegal. AT&T is way too eager to cooperate with bushco.
1billinnj2
· 1 year ago
washington d.c. is soooooooo corrupt. the politicans are sooooooooo corrupt. they owe their soul to the telecom and big business. this is another reason to vote them out of office every 6 or 12 years and the house every 2 or 4.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Immunity for telcoms and for other big businesses as well looks like the wave of the near future. It won't be easy to undo, in fact, it might not ever be possible to undo those immunities. I don't believe it's a constitutional matter so much as it is an economic matter, one that takes authority out of the public sphere and places it firmly inside the world of business operations. Wasn't it Hoover Heaver ( ! ) who once said, "The business of America is business!" And that's your back story.
Good morning! :-)
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Yeah, I thought they'd just punt 'til after the election when they had a real majority and, hopefully, a Democratic president, then do it right.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
What ever happened about Sibel Edmonds?
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
They have files on every single one of us on these blogs now.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
OT, presenting Indigo's new gravatar:
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
On the other side of the fence, I have to assume a McCain "Yay" vote helps Bob Barr.
rextrek1
· 1 year ago
Who influenced Jay Rockefeller and Steny Hoyer? hmmm....I wouldn't doubt THEY'VE BEEN SPYED ON..and are being "blackmailed".....PROBABLY A PERCENTAGE OF THE DEMS ARE BEING BLACKMAILED....Hows that Wrking out for ya's?
Busboy
· 1 year ago
I hope the government is listening in on my conversations with my kids. At least I'll know someone is listening...
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
If you travel here, we'll go to Caddo Lake for fishing, if you like. It's really scenic with all the Spanish Moss. But I don't have a boat so we'll have to rent one. Hell, paddle out there. The lake has a Texas side and a Louisiana side. Great white perch fishing, but of course, not this time of year.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
SCOTUS will be ruling on a gun rights issue today. I guarantee, they will totally be behind the 2nd Amendment in their ruling, which is fine. And the gun nuts will believe they're in charge. Fellas, your little rifles will mean nothing. They have weapons that can blow your stoopid ass away from miles away. Shit that wil microwave you if you get restless. Thanks for supporting the powers that be which are coming for you. Good luck.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
And yet they won't let guns into the Supreme Court Building.
Hypocrites.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
They probably have satellites in space that can laser and vaporize you instantly. Good luck with the 2nd Amendment thing if you ever decide the government becomes too oppressive.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 1 year ago
Remember I noted the fallacy and bamboozling of the "American Dream"??
Okay...related...but OT...and I have posted this several times but it makes the point...a Yale buddy of mine graduated from Yale Law top of his class. He got a really high legal job at Blue Cross in the seventies. His ONLY job, running a huge legal department, was to find loopholes to NOT pay you a claim and to work this against policy lingo. When he retired about five years ago, Blue Cross paid him TWENTY TWO MILLION FUCKING BUCKS. I asked him "How the fuck is it possible to pay ONE fucking lawyer that obscene amount as a golden handshake?"
His answer to me was..."You are SO terribly naive about how K-Street operates."
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
It's over. We ran the good race; fought the good fight. But they have us on the ropes now.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
Joe, Your mistake is that you still are loyal to the Democrats, but they aren't loyal to you. Some here say they were bought off by the telecommunications corporations, but I think they are idealistically on the same side as Bush, and thus see nothing wrong with being bought off by the corporations and corrupt fat cats.
The only differences that the Democrats have with the Republicans are meaningless wedge issues like abortion and homosexuality. If those issues ever end up having any real financial significance to the corporations, watch how fast the Democrats switch sides.
OK, that's about some ignert and embarassing from here. It never ends. Busboy, they have "crowd control" measures now that make guns useless.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
Wasn't the mantra of the gun people always about if the govmint becomes oppressive and a need for a revolution we need the 2nd Amendment?? Now, ya'll see it as fighting other citizens. I've absolutely no concern about black folks than those fools. It's a horrible mark on my state that people fleeing Katrina were met with that.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
that's an amazing picture, bboy. ...13 men and not one set of balls.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Now, tls, why would you think that?
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
Apparently it's over, already. The great American sell-out of the Bill of Rights by the Congress continues unabated. Now all we have to wait for is the thunderous applause that will accompany passage of legislation that guts the Fourth Amendment.
I found an interesting website this morning regarding Dobson's comments against Obama. www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com I think there needs to be more people like this speaking up like this.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
I've read that the Bill actually sets things right and controls the way telecoms can gather info. They get immunity because they helped the country in a time of need. If Bush had declared martial law the telecoms would have been forced to wiretap anyway, so why not let them off the hook?
vegasbaby
· 1 year ago
because we're a land of laws...no one is excempt
heathwood
· 1 year ago
OPEC members say 150-170 dollars in crude oil this summer.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Don't know about that, heathwood. The crude futures chart looks to be making the "old German spiked helmet" formation which means it could drop back to $100 pretty quick. Of course if anyone hiccups in the middle east, that would push it higher.
Uh Busboy...telecoms were asked to illegally wiretap in February 2001, before 9-11. What time of need are you talking about?
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Did it ever occur to you, Bumpkis, that there was a national security issue involved? That the FISA court was unable to deal with the situation because of it's own limitations? There's a reason that the Democrats are on board with this new Bill.
bumpkis
· 1 year ago
Yeah...its called money and blackmail.
vegasbaby
· 1 year ago
limitations???? with a 72 hour window to get a warrant? nothing tied their hands to get information in an emergency....the FISA court is open 24/7/365...why the need for change?????
Busboy
· 1 year ago
because one of the members on the fisa court (who has since resigned) refused to hand out warrants on terrorist suspects and you don't want national security trumped by any judge who thinks the law is more important than say, saving Las Vegas from a nuclear explosion.
jr
· 1 year ago
Hoyer was born in 1939. He's senile and thinks the Republicans are still in the majority
RevDrBillyBob
· 1 year ago
Busboy knows that REAL Americans don't NEED wimpy, sissy things like "rights".
All Comments
Obama said he's for the bill because it requires the FISA court to approve all...and the immunity for the telecoms is worth giving because of that. Is he right? I was also a bit disturbed by his agreement with the conservatives on the SC on the child rape death penalty issue as well. Where is he going with all this--total political gain?
If lawsuits were permitted against telecommunications firms, the discovery process may have resulted in details being unearthed about the extent of Israel's involvement in federal wiretapping and illegal surveillance of Americans.
AMDOCS?? COMVERSE INFOSYS??
talking heads say the dems "caved" on FISA, but in order to "cave" you have to have said somewhere you stand for something, you have to value something.
not sure "cave" is the right word for a party that seems to not know what it values.
Clintonism has triumphed.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/articl...
Transcript part 2 from before FOXNEWS went belly up as a news organization. 4 Part series scrubbed from the web but can still be found if you know where to look.
I think the government should be spying, as long as there are FISA checks over the process, and most Americans probably feel the same way.
It's the telecom immunity that bothers me, though I'm probably in the minority there. I'm sure most Americans just think the telecoms were being "good Americans" or some bullshit..
AT&T is way too eager to cooperate with bushco.
And that's your back story.
Good morning! :-)
Hypocrites.
Well here you have it....
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/opinion/23kru...
http://www.picoodle.com/getcode.php?url=img27.p...
His answer to me was..."You are SO terribly naive about how K-Street operates."
Your mistake is that you still are loyal to the Democrats, but they aren't loyal to you. Some here say they were bought off by the telecommunications corporations, but I think they are idealistically on the same side as Bush, and thus see nothing wrong with being bought off by the corporations and corrupt fat cats.
The only differences that the Democrats have with the Republicans are meaningless wedge issues like abortion and homosexuality. If those issues ever end up having any real financial significance to the corporations, watch how fast the Democrats switch sides.
http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/6/26/f_ka...
...13 men and not one set of balls.
Sickening.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,859...
www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com
I think there needs to be more people like this speaking up like this.
http://futuresource.quote.com/charts/charts.jsp...