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Detroit fought higher FE standards b/c they had to make trucks and SUVs to turn a profit. They couldn't make cars at a profit b/c of their union contracts and health care costs. Union contracts have been renegotiated. The sorry thing remaining is retiree health care costs (which will go to the union) and existing employee health care costs.
Solve the problem with universal health care and a short-term shot in the arm of cash.
But guess where the T has been buying its trains in recent years---Czech Republic and Italy are two places that I know of for sure. There may be others as well. And they sure do not work: buses getting pulled after a few months service because of suspensions cracking, trolleys with unreliable brakes, etc.
Now I know it was far more lucrative in the past for the auto industry to go from the dream of each family owning a car to the actualization in the last few years of every family member of driving age owning a car, but these are new times. In order for all of us to survive, environmentally as well as fiscally, we need to reembrace public transportation and restore all of those rail lines that have gone out of use as well. It is not an option. Let's retool the plants to make buses and trains like they did in the past, and at the same time help the environment.
PS: Happy B'day, yyou.
I know I am skewed toward an urban point of view, but truly that is where the huge numbers of people are. Because of gas prices many people who had never set foot on our commuter rail system have recently begun to ride. We have a totally mismanaged transit system in Boston, with a deficit that is supposedly getting bigger and bigger despite record ridership. The latest act of T management, baffling everyone, has been to DOUBLE the rates to park at one of the T stations (from $10 to $20/ week). With gas prices dipping again, and the parking rates now making parking at a garage close to work even cheaper in some instances, I think more people will revisit driving in to work, especially given the greater comfort of driving. I think the safety issue is real, but somewhat of an illusion, as road rage incidents have been on the rise and I see a lot more reckless driving than I used to. In our society, violence can and does happen anywhere.
It's fine with me if all individual autos are banned from city centers and trains get us from point A to Point B in suburban and rural areas.
are victims of their own GREED and short-sighted
mode of thinking.
Detroit has had plenty of opportunity to sort out
their own problems but NOOOOOOO - they had
to market stupid SUV's to people who have NO
FUCKING NEED for such things.
you know why they did this? because of the
loophole in the Fed's requirements for fuel
efficient vehicles that excluded SUVs from
meeting the same specifications as cars.
if we bail them out, upper management
needs to be shown the door and bring in
some sensible people to run the companies.
of course the execs get bailed out and the
workers will likely get jack.
where does it stop??
where's the bailout for the rest of us??
If we had universal health care many things would be more affordable and manageable in this country.
It was American citiizens greed that rode the SUV high. When you are a company you make what people demand now and then work behind the scenes trying to decipher what they might want next. Do some research and find out how long it takes to design, research, build, test, safety test, and market research a new car model. Oh, and while you are at it, research how much that costs. Costs based on materials as well as labor.
Sure, why not bail out an industry that has proven it hasn't got a clue about life in the American peasant's world. After all, it's not like we have a recession, bordering on a depression, and we have such a huge surplus--not like we're a deficit nation or anything.
And meanwhile, those of us who are already unemployed get the usual: no help whatsoever.
But, let's do make sure that the higher-ups get rewarded for their abysmal performances. Isn't that just what we did with Bush? Sounds like a continuation of the past decade--and why would we want to anything better, smarter, or even different?
Detroit has made moves in the right direction, and it's already been pummelled over the last several years, with 300+ thousand manufacturing jobs heading overseas and south of the border due to "free" trade agreements.
Don't give Detroit $$, give all of its retirees and employees government funded healthcare. Add them all to medicare as a proof-of-concept. That alone might just make some of the small cars that aren't currently profitable in North America worth the effort again.
Why did GM kill the electric car, hmmmmm. To the point of essentially repossessing them, and CRUSHING them.
Google Who Killed the Electric Car.
And they say the autos don't innovate? The Republicans haven't had a new thought among them in 28 years.
I believe it is the shareholders that are responsible for the horrible parting gifts of CEO/CFOs not the general public...unless public moneys are involved.
"Detroit" offers and sells what the public wants. The A-holes driving around in Suburbans/Tahoes/Hummers bought/leased each one of there own volition.
let the fucktards driving Hummers try to sell 'em
or trade 'em in - such as Arnold "I like Hummers
so much I have eight of them" Schwarzeneggar
who has no worries as he's a multimillionaire.
"This is what you would've learned: that American cars are, to this very day, still uniformly awful. Or if they're not awful, they're just passably mediocre. And your money would be oh so much better spent on German or Japanese or even Korean. I'm so sorry about your urine-yellow Chevy Aveo. Here, have my parking space.
You might disagree. You might say, hey wait a minute, not all American cars are as dreadful and ill-equipped as Sarah Palin at a science fair. There are a few exceptions, a few gems among the dirt clods.
...
And now here's the other thing I think when I hear that the bloated American auto industry is on the verge of complete collapse, failure, bankruptcy, that the Big Three -- Ford, GM, Chrysler -- are losing billions hand over tailpipe, and that Obama and Nancy Pelosi are right now considering shoveling many billions into their voracious maws to try and keep them afloat for a while longer, just so they can keep producing crap no one really wants.
I think: Are you kidding me? We have a chance to let this fat, lazy, top-heavy, SUV-glutted industry implode like it so very much deserves, and we might not take it? I think: What an opportunity. We could begin to reinvent the American automobile starting next week, and we might instead keep the old ways alive simply because the Big Three were too stupid and greedy to see past their gross SUV sales figures for the past 25 years? Come on. "
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/...
I do agree that the Big 3 need some reworking. For instance, one nameplate per manufacturer. Then they take the best selling and most economical brands and build those. There will be consolidation which hopefully won't take too long and then R & D can blast forward. Remember, we don't necessarily know what cars are in the pipeline and being tested right now.
Hell no when it come to a bailout. Let the car makers go through the same process that the average individual has to go through when for what ever reason times get tough. Enter in a Chapter 13 and reorganize your companies and if you can't begin producing cars that run on alternative energies, then you too can go the way of the dinasaur.
If we're to believe that management at the big three didn't see this coming, then just maybe they should talk to the Japanese who not only invented and have all electric cars, but even cars that run on water as their sole fuel. Ask yourselves why America keeps missing the progressive boat when it come to technologies? Could it just be that profit and greed are always more important than innovation that could both save the planet as well as billions of tax payer dollars?
A bailout of the carmakers?!?! Hell no. Use the brains that the good lord gave you and catch up with the rest of the world, but not one penny of tax payer funds to bail you out. You people squandered your future holding back technologies that could have kept pace with Japan when it came to quality and you missed the boat entirely by thinking bigger is better, when people could have just as easily gotten to work in something a whole lot smaller than a Hummer. Now you can pay the price like so many Americans have when hard times hit, and the fun is just begining.
By continuing to reward poor management, bad investments, terrible loans with no collateral and rewarding and bonusing people for mediocre job performance we will see no change. If Obama keeps the same old guard in positions we will see no governmental change either. It was amazing to me to see the G-20 announce that they can made great strides but agreed on nothing. We are as a country being managed by level after level of people with no ideas, no curiosity and who are steeped in the past. The past 15 years shows how little the politicians want change or want to embrace a new approach. They want the status quo, if anyone truly believes that Detroit will do anything differently you just need to examine the specs for the new Volt which is Gm's answer to the future. 24 miles to the gallon. My 1982 Mercedes diesel gets 35 we have come a long way-----NOT.
I'm so sick of Hillbilly Republics mis-running our economy.
BTW, it was announced Friday that Honda is opening a plant in Michigan, paying $9.50/hr...and there probably will be no union there, either. Terrific. The people of Michigan will be making the same as their southern counterparts in the BMW, Toyota and Mercedes plants in SC, AL and MS...
Have a link to that? Can't find any info about Honda planning to open a plant in Michigan. Most of Honda's current operations are in Ohio.
Why weren't they saying this about the banking industry? Or AIG? How about letting those dinosaurs fail. Funny how so many called the bailout of financial markets socialism yet many think we should get a stake in the automakers. More double standards.
I say pull all the money given to AIG (what hasn't been spent) and any being given to the "healthy banks" who want to use their portion to acquire other small guys and give it to the Big 3. With conditions. With a 50% cut in top executive pay, pension contributions, and bonuses for the year. 80% of their lines must get 35 MPG or better within 5 years (yeah takes awhile for R&D and actual assembly). Let's not take anything else from the workers. They haven't done anything wrong. Their work is harder than most can imagine. Tough work deserves better wages. Sorry, but that is true. Many of them have had shifts cut or have been intermittently laid off through the years. I certainly can't blame them for fighting for every penny and benefit they can. Why not? I would if given the chance.
Oh, and for the record. I am not in the auto business although I have 2 family members whose jobs depend on the industry. One works for a supplier and the other works as an IT contractor for a comany contracted by Ford. Their jobs have been on the block for over a year. Imagine spending a year wondering every single day if today is the day one or both of you may lose your job and health benefits when you are in your 50s and so close to retirement? Wondering who will hire you at your age when everyone else is looking for work too? My grandfather was also on the original Mustang design team. Other family and friends worked in the industry one way or another through the years but are either retired without big pensions or moved on to another career.
The auto industry needs to be bailed out, if necessary, but -- unlike the banking bailout -- it needs to be done with strict new regulations and an overhaul and replacement of management. One of the first requirements should be the doubling of CAFE standards over the next five years.
Again, if the Japs can invent a car that runs on the hydrogen created from splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen, what's stopping us? Look no further than those we elected to do the peoples business in D.C. Obama say he won't raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000 a year, but that won't stop your state and local governments from making up the difference in higher property taxes as well as higher fees for everything from a hunting and fishing license to a drivers license.
Technology is the answer to saving detroit and the sooner we partner with others around the world, the faster we will get out of this mess while creating new industires that displaced auto workers can be trained for as well as opening up opportunites in green industries for the next generation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb9urNUFzAM
Because that's a myth.
The automakers are destroyed not for any reason other than the Republican Oil Companies Profiteering this year that was unchecked by Congress.
We the State of Michigan demand succession from the United States.
It's it funny how there are those who REFUSE to understand why the automakers are in this mess? No one predicted two years ago or even a year ago that oil would skyrocket and the housing market would tank leaving us where we are.
The Big 3's problems right now are directly related to these events. There apparently is also wide misunderstanding of how long it takes to bring a new model safely to the market. They already have plans for fuel efficiency on the books, but it doesn't happen overnight. And Chevy has more fuel efficient cars (over 30 MPG Hwy) than both Toyota AND Honda.
That being said it will be necessary to restructure society. We need to decentralze our society. Reduce the size of cities, build new smaller cities in the wide open space in this country. Smaller cities, locally produced food, mass transit between these smaller cities. Since these cities are smaller and do not require long commutes, electric or mass transit for people to get to work. Stop the madness of building large trucks and Hummers, etc. End the "I Have A Right" to buy a gas guzzler mentality.
We are at the cusp of a societal change folks. We are at the point where we change society to meet the challenges and realities of the future or we die not trying.
In other words, we cannot sustain our present lifestyles. We have had a number of revolutions through history. Agricultural, industrial, etc. It is time for a societal revolution. The vision of the city of the future of the 50's was correct, but they left out the reality of the future, population and resource scarcity.
We have to change our expectations for the future. It does not mean less, it means different.
It is time for a societal revolution. The old ways worked to raise the "quality of life" but they cannot sustain the life of the future, especially considering that the rest of the world wants that same lifestyle.
an industry that mismanages funds like the banks and aig are ok to rescue but an industry that gets out retailed by the competition is thrown to the scrap heap, won't it be nice to again have a pres that treats all of america with respect even if all didn't vote for him, now thats democracy dem style.
First of all, they don't have competitive products? Well, that is interesting since GM just recently barely was edged out by Toyota for the first time in sales. They are consistently at the top. And another tidbit - they are hurting as well.
Have a looksie here, Toyoya was just downgraded from AAA and given a negative rating. See, the economy kinda sucks in real world Japan too.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/fitch-may...
Don't think they aren't next. The U.S. is the largest auto market and not many people are buying so that means no one is getting those cash infusions.
Who said if they are forced to file bankruptcy it would be Chapter 11? See the reason they are failing is because of the credit market - they can't raise any cash. If customers can't get credit then they can't sell cars - that means they get no cash infusion. So that would put them into a Chapter 7 here in the real world. The imports are making cars in the U.S. but the numbers are no close to the U.S guys so that means the suppliers will start oozing money. Then of course they most likely won't be able to get short term cash because #1 the banks are only dolling it out to their buddies - not the little guys and #2 they won't have the same sales figures so they won't look as attractive for repayment options.
Oh yeah, and if they were to file 11 by some chance, the government would have to pony up a lot more money, perhaps 10x what they are asking for now.
My uncle works for a supplier and he has been somehow spared at least 3 layoff rounds in the last year. His company is German, and automotive isn't their only line but by far is their BIGGEST line. They have been downsizing (even laid off the receptionist) and repositioning a few staff to Germany, Mexico, and other countries. However, a large portion of their business is automotive and they may eventually have to move everyone or close completely.
If people like my uncle continue to get laid off then they won't be able to spend money. Then the places they used to spend money will have a loss of business and they won't be able to buy or sell the same things and will have layoffs then those people won't be able to spend money. And on and on and on.
The last point I will make here is that Chrysler was facing failure many years ago and got a government loan. They had major issues besides money there, but they turned themselves around and paid off the loan (with interest) ahead of schedule. That is what GM is looking for - loan and not a Wall Street giveaway (think we'll actually see that money back from AIG?).
Let's hope you don't get squished by the large snowball coming down the mountain towards your imaginary world.
If we went into a big war again we couldn't even put shoes on the soldiers...Oh excuse me, the troops.
The reason the south lost the civil war was not because they had less heart or less people. It was pure and simple that they had practically no manufacturing. All the factories were in the North. That is why their troops wore 'butternut' colored uniforms. They didn't have the mills to make and dye the cloth. They didn't have the guns and the ships and the cannons except what was there before the war and what they could smuggle in.
Where do you think we will be if we have to import all our 'munitions' from Japan and China?
All those little manufacturing jobs that will disappear if our car manufacturers go under are important not just because they represent jobs for Americans but because they are our manufacturing base in this country.
Those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it.
www.bustergetmypills.com