Today's opinion polls do not modify the results of the past polls that matter, namely, the primaries. The latter have determined that she can not win.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
They've also determined Obama can't win.
Remember, neither of them have sufficient delegates to clinch the nomination, and both require the superdelegates in order to pass the finish line.
dad
· 1 year ago
The answer has more to do with media psychology than with practical politics.
The answer has more to do with media profits than with practical politics.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
Well, "can't win" and "virtually no chance to win" aren't exactly the same thing, so I think your headline is a bit misleading.
But otherwise, it does seem to be that the media is more interested in a story it can sell than in honest reporting.
dad
· 1 year ago
Mike, you make peace look so patriotic
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
In my mind, peace should be patriotic!
dad
· 1 year ago
Your mind is correct.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
*blush* Thanks, dad! :-)
nicho
· 1 year ago
Technically, you're right. Hillary could win, but it would take some Rovian-style destruction of Obama, some kind of hijacking of superdelegates, or something else that the authors point out runs the risk of blowing up the Democratic party for years to come.
The headline isn't misleading, as much as incomplete -- which, as a former headline writer I can assure you is the nature of the beast. A more complete headline would be:
Hillary can't win without mortally wounding the Democrats and their chances for the next 20 years.
FNReedie
· 1 year ago
And that appears to be the game plan. If she can't win, no democrat will. (I was a completely torn between Hillary and Obama after John Edwards dropped out. However I can no longer see myself eagerly voting for Hillary.)
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
I still don't believe that's the game plan. Guessing motives isn't helpful or useful, even in terms of analysis.
And I doubt it's as dramatic as "wounding the Democrats and their chances for the next 20 years".
The one thing we all should have learned from the past few years is how volatile the political landscape can be. It was just 5 years ago that Bush, Rove, and the GOP were unstoppable and on their way to creating a "permanent Republican majority".
And let's be honest, that's not the only way Clinton can win the nod. We've got months until the convention, and perhaps Obama will implode on his own. (Not saying it's likely, but if we are talking about what's possible, that certainly is a possibility as well).
Clinton continues to have a strong contingent of actual voters in the party who support her, regardless of the discussions we (tiny minority) in the blogosphere partake in.
It's still possible for Clinton to win *and* I suspect she hopes to do it in a way that gives her time to rebuild fences so as to avoid blowing up the party.
Whether or not she is capable of doing this is not something I can say, or even how likely it is, but I'd still rather treat both candidates respectfully until the nomination is clinched, because I'll support either of them against McCain.
FNReedie
· 1 year ago
I hope you're right. But after seeing the the extremely fear-baiting (3AM) campaigning, its hard for me to believe that she is holding out for the greater good. However, it is not enough to win "with time to mend the fences" if it hurts the process. I'd much rather see Clinton battle Obama on actual ideas instead of fear.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 1 year ago
Dont you think this Wright scuttlebutt and media hate fest, thats been on going for days on end,is a "Rovian-style destruction of Obama"??
HighCrimes&Misdemeanors
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
Yes, and I've been saying for a while now that Obama should expect this. They'll do it to either Obama or Clinton, and you'll notice that when Clinton was ahead, they went after her and played nice with Obama, but now that Obama has been in the lead, it's been reversed.
The MSM is corporate and is in the pockets of the GOP. Whoever wins the Dem nod will be torn to shreds and treated much more harshly than McCain.
If Obama continues to lead and then captures the nomination, expect months upon months of Wright scuttlebutt and similar attacks.
FNReedie
· 1 year ago
Agreed ... but that is exactly why the candidates shouldn't be doing it to each other. When they attack each other with the low-blows, all they do is create opportunities for the GOP.
BorninUSA
· 1 year ago
The media isn't afraid to tell people. The media is afraid to tell Hillary.
dad
· 1 year ago
well ... i'm not the one who is going to tell her
Tom3
· 1 year ago
Hillary cannot win. She doesn't have the votes to beat Obama unless she steals the election by getting superdelegates to vote for her.
Superdelegates are balking at this, because if their constitutents voted for Obama and they vote for Hillary, they will lose their own elections next time.
VegasDave
· 1 year ago
With Hillary, it's all about a scorched earth policy. She wants to be President. At her age, if Obama gets two terms, she's too old to run in eight years. But, if John McCain gets the Presidency, she can figure on going for it in another four years. There is no way Grampa is going to go longer then one term. If she can't have it this year, her best bet is to get McCain elected this go round and be the party front-runner next time. Cynical, yes, but improbable? You tell me.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
Too cynical. It requires too much mind-reading and assigning machiavellian motives to Clinton which are based on other assumptions and guesses and mind-reading.
Maybe you're right, but in the absence of hard evidence, it's just as likely she's fighting hard because she honestly doesn't believe Obama will be able to beat McCain and she knows it's important for the Dems to win this year.
Tom3
· 1 year ago
Any superdelegate from an Obama district or state who votes for Hillary will be committing political suicide and will be out of a job after their next election.
Hillary is toast. She cannot make it and should drop out before she damages the party any further.
Tom3
· 1 year ago
So how to explain recent polls showing her edging ahead of Obama?
Polls don't mean anything at this point. The only thing that counts is delegates.
And Obama has a lead in delegates that Hillary cannot catch up to.
Hillary should quit for the good of the party. But Hillary only cares about Hillary.
mirth
· 1 year ago
I realize the polls are mostly meaningless, but they do mess with one's mind. That's the point, I guess.
btw: I did have you beat on minus points for comments. ;-)
grasshopper
· 1 year ago
Hillary's negatives are way up too. Blowback from her kitchen sink.
mdg650hawk
· 1 year ago
Not only "who is gonna tell Hillary?" but who is gonna tell Taylor Marsh and her army of hateful fupa soccer moms?!?!? The horror!!!
boloboffin
· 1 year ago
Hillary can't win either the nomination or the general.
The nomination is in the OP. If she does win the nomination because of superdelegates, it isn't just the African-American vote that will desert her. It's anyone upset about how Bush took the presidency in 2000.
Can Hillary afford yet another tranquilizing effect on her possible base? She's already someone who will excite the base of her opponent. If she wins in a way that reminds Democratic voters of the 2000 debacle, then her support is eroded beyond repair.
If Hillary had won the nomination fair and square, then this would be a moot point. But she can't. All she can do is withdraw or cripple the eventual nominee (perhaps irreparably), whoever it is.
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
Hillary, stop the lies and misinformation about your alleged "experience". Step aside NOW for the good of the party and the good of the nation. You have lost any honest means of taking the Democratic nomination and are losing any respect any of us have ever had for you. You are now refusing to play by the rules you so eagerly accepted in your bid to run for nomination and are now grasping for straws and claiming to want MI and FL's vote counted, even though you knew going in that they would not be. Now you wish to "move the goalposts" in a last ditch effort to steal the nomination from Sen. Obama. If you are successful, you and your campaign, will have effectively destroyed the Democratic Party. Step aside NOW and put your support to Obama and our combined efforts to unseat the neo-cons and bring justice back to our nation and our citizens. You have lost.
Obama '08!
1billinnj2
· 1 year ago
hillary will never quit. she believes that she can take this away from obama with the superdelegates. she will play this out until everyone is against her and tells here it is over. if there is one person urging her on then she will continue. john edwards and al gore have to come out for obama. then it is over.
Jump to the Left
· 1 year ago
Mirth,
My internet connection has crashed about 4 times this morning. Not sure what's causing that.
Yeah, I don't know what to make of the polls, but I know I don't trust them.
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
Not sure if it's related but my Firefox browser has locked up a few times today at this site. This did not happen yesterday.
Jump to the Left
· 1 year ago
Same here. Have to "task monitor" out of Firefox. Seems to happen when I click on the "make a comment" link.
devis1
· 1 year ago
Me too Jump. A post dedicated to addressing these problems would be nice.
mirth
· 1 year ago
Jump: I'm sorry you are having crashes, but so am I and I'm happy I'm not the only one. :-)
CoralGables
· 1 year ago
I am in total agreement that Clinton can't catch Obama in pledged delegates and will need the Super Delegates to win. Similarly, Obama will not reach the required delegates to win and will need the help of the Super Delegates to win the nomination. The problem that no one likes to acknowledge is, if Clinton ends up leading in the popular vote, it will take the Super Delegates overturning the will of the people for Obama for win.
1billinnj2
· 1 year ago
another point, if michigan and florida are out then we can lower the delegate number below the 2025. we can reduce it to 300 less or so. if they admitted those two states then they can adjust the number. how far off am i on this or is the rules committee going to create new rules.
grandma
· 1 year ago
In his Philadelphia speech on race this week, Obama laid bare his soul.
By blaming both whites and blacks for racial tensions, he triangulated the problem.
And, of course, he changed the subject from his Pastor Eruption.
He out-Clintoned even the Clintons and somewhere, Bill Clinton is marveling over how he backed the wrong horse in this race.
Bill Clinton--" If this race were between John McCain and Hillary Clinton, it would be between 2 people who love this country, without all this other stuff" NICE. This was just read off by Nora O'Donnell on MSNBC.
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
It's getting to the point that I would have a very difficult time voting for Clinton even if she did take the nomination. Bill saying, "between two people who love this country" is just about as out of touch as a person can get. Bill's insinuation that Sen. Obama does not love America as much as Hillary and "Songbird" McCain is nothing short of ignorant, divisive and unAmerican.
mirth
· 1 year ago
Bill has no shame and his desperation is obvious. Most citizens did not know enough about his tenure before Hillary's campaign and now we are much better informed and that's a good thing. The thought of him back in the White House....no, no, no.
jr
· 1 year ago
Hillary's Naderization of the primary is disgusting. Every day Mccombover gets to raise money for the general while Obama has to still raise money for a primary. She needs to be kicked out. I don't care if her supporters get carpal tunnel from waving the pom poms. It's over
devis1
· 1 year ago
McCombover--I love it. I recently watched a doc on Sundance where this guy goes X-Country searching for the best combover. I didn't think of McCain until I watched a link provided by someone here showing McCain derailing investigation into mia/pow's in 1992. He looked like he had alot less hair back then. He learned the art of the combover!!
It'd be a great thing if we had an election where you had two people who love this country, who were devoted to the interest of the country and people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues instead of all this other stuff which always seems to intrude on our politics.
Hillary is up 16 points in PA. Who gives a crap what Vandehei & Allen say? Aren't they just two more of the unending parade of boobs trotted out at the dead and dying magazines that nobody buys, reads, or cares about because everything in them is obsolete before they print them?
FNReedie
· 1 year ago
Hillary will need to be up more than that to be show that she is growing her lead. She is still within the margin of error on the increase.
scooter in brooklyn
· 1 year ago
16 points? not enough.
General Zod
· 1 year ago
Still have a month to go. I'm just tired of the media trying to decide the outcome.
scooter in brooklyn
· 1 year ago
i dont think they're so much trying to decide the outcome as pump up the ad revenue. the closer they make it seem the more bucks they haul in.
Rab
· 1 year ago
She can't win and she's in denial like her hillbots are. I backed Edwards at one point and didn't have as much a problem as the hillbots getting over your candidate not getting the nomination.
scooter in brooklyn
· 1 year ago
rab: i was an edwards supporter too. you think he's ever going to endorse?
ndtovent
· 1 year ago
I agree with the post. However, to be fair to both cands., I think that the dnc should still seat the delegates from MI and FL, but split them in half -- 50/50 for each. After the election, things need to be changed (as in sack the whole friggin superdelegate system.
LunaStick
· 1 year ago
Hillary Clinton = Tonya Harding
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
An apt comparison, it seems.
dula
· 1 year ago
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Hillary Clinton The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder revolve around a pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and sense of entitlement. Often individuals feel overly important and will exaggerate achievements and will accept, and often demand, praise and admiration despite worthy achievements. They may be overwhelmed with fantasies involving unlimited success, power, love, or beauty and feel that they can only be understood by others who are, like them, superior in some aspect of life.
There is a sense of entitlement, of being more deserving than others based solely on their superiority. These symptoms, however, are a result of an underlying sense of inferiority and are often seen as overcompensation. Because of this, they are often envious and even angry of others who have more, receive more respect or attention, or otherwise steal away the spotlight.
izforever
· 1 year ago
As my 15-year-old would say, "no duh."
It's over.
Have you noticed that Obama is all about McCain now? Ignoring Hillary?
There's a reason.
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
Obama is very smart.
bushknew
· 1 year ago
I am still for Hillary. I hope the superdelegates pull their head out and realize that when November comes around Obama would be crushed by McCain. I fear that. I'm voting D not matter what but I think Hillary is the best chance given what's been playing about Obama recently. I don't think this will die for him.
GDawg
· 1 year ago
The only way Hillary can win is from some back room side deals with the SuperDelagates. And that will piss off the blacks.
You Democrats have put yourselves in THE TRICK BAG.
lmao ... lol ... and there is no way out.
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
Apparently, everything that happens just proves what you prefer to believe.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
Maybe, maybe not. I'm assuming Clinton is thinking that she'll have time to mend fences between the convention and the election.
But... given what the GOP has done to our country over the past decade, and given how McCain is clearly running as "more of the same", I think it's the Republicans who are should be worried.
That's why the corporate media is going full out to destroy Obama and Clinton (depending on which one is leading at the time!) and not treating McCain the same way. If they went into McCain's record and Bush's with the same critical eye, and actually stuck to the story and reported it, Bush would have been impeached already and McCain would lose in a landslide.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 1 year ago
...and you REPUKES need to be taged, baged and thrown out of this country for TREASON!
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
MOMan
· 1 year ago
BREAKING NEWS . . . Obama shit . . . and it don't stink . . . according to Jonny Aravosis!
dad
· 1 year ago
it is spelled with an "h"
MOMan
· 1 year ago
yes, the "h" version is typically the spelling for males
dad
· 1 year ago
very good. well played.
you can go home now.
General Zod
· 1 year ago
But hey, maybe Hillary can knee-cap the black guy Obama before we have to take on our real enemy, the Republicans.
C'mon Johnny, just say it, you know you want to........ just say nigger. Because as an ex-Republican I trust your motives about as much as any other GOP hack. For some reason bashing Hillary makes your dick hard, and your drooling on Obama is past the sickening phase.
Pack up you bullshit "I'm a flaming liberal now" site and go back to being a closet republican dick-licker, OK? Now ban me for another week or so.
An_American_Karol
· 1 year ago
General Zod, I have never understood why people like you feel it necessary to frequent a blog you obviously do not agree with and hold the blog owner in disdain.
mirth
· 1 year ago
So how to explain recent polls showing her edging ahead of Obama?
OT: I'm getting frequent error reports when I clink links here or refresh. No problems on other sites. Anyone else?
dad
· 1 year ago
do they get to take their delegates back?
devis1
· 1 year ago
My system stops responding and I have to do the Alt-Ctl-Del option, which shuts down either all the Firefox or IE windows. Been reading thru comments to try and see others recommendations to try and fix it, but so far no help. The box you can check to open links in new windows works but then when you refresh the page it disappears. I changed tabs in firefox internet options but not sure it has stuck. Oh well, I'm not tech savvy enuf to figure this all out yet. Maybe someone will do a post devoted to the less savvy but loyal readers!!
All Comments
Remember, neither of them have sufficient delegates to clinch the nomination, and both require the superdelegates in order to pass the finish line.
The answer has more to do with media profits than with practical politics.
But otherwise, it does seem to be that the media is more interested in a story it can sell than in honest reporting.
The headline isn't misleading, as much as incomplete -- which, as a former headline writer I can assure you is the nature of the beast. A more complete headline would be:
Hillary can't win without mortally wounding the Democrats and their chances for the next 20 years.
And I doubt it's as dramatic as "wounding the Democrats and their chances for the next 20 years".
The one thing we all should have learned from the past few years is how volatile the political landscape can be. It was just 5 years ago that Bush, Rove, and the GOP were unstoppable and on their way to creating a "permanent Republican majority".
And let's be honest, that's not the only way Clinton can win the nod. We've got months until the convention, and perhaps Obama will implode on his own. (Not saying it's likely, but if we are talking about what's possible, that certainly is a possibility as well).
Clinton continues to have a strong contingent of actual voters in the party who support her, regardless of the discussions we (tiny minority) in the blogosphere partake in.
It's still possible for Clinton to win *and* I suspect she hopes to do it in a way that gives her time to rebuild fences so as to avoid blowing up the party.
Whether or not she is capable of doing this is not something I can say, or even how likely it is, but I'd still rather treat both candidates respectfully until the nomination is clinched, because I'll support either of them against McCain.
HighCrimes&Misdemeanors
The MSM is corporate and is in the pockets of the GOP. Whoever wins the Dem nod will be torn to shreds and treated much more harshly than McCain.
If Obama continues to lead and then captures the nomination, expect months upon months of Wright scuttlebutt and similar attacks.
Superdelegates are balking at this, because if their constitutents voted for Obama and they vote for Hillary, they will lose their own elections next time.
If she can't have it this year, her best bet is to get McCain elected this go round and be the party front-runner next time.
Cynical, yes, but improbable? You tell me.
Maybe you're right, but in the absence of hard evidence, it's just as likely she's fighting hard because she honestly doesn't believe Obama will be able to beat McCain and she knows it's important for the Dems to win this year.
Hillary is toast. She cannot make it and should drop out before she damages the party any further.
Polls don't mean anything at this point. The only thing that counts is delegates.
And Obama has a lead in delegates that Hillary cannot catch up to.
Hillary should quit for the good of the party. But Hillary only cares about Hillary.
btw: I did have you beat on minus points for comments. ;-)
The nomination is in the OP. If she does win the nomination because of superdelegates, it isn't just the African-American vote that will desert her. It's anyone upset about how Bush took the presidency in 2000.
Can Hillary afford yet another tranquilizing effect on her possible base? She's already someone who will excite the base of her opponent. If she wins in a way that reminds Democratic voters of the 2000 debacle, then her support is eroded beyond repair.
If Hillary had won the nomination fair and square, then this would be a moot point. But she can't. All she can do is withdraw or cripple the eventual nominee (perhaps irreparably), whoever it is.
Obama '08!
My internet connection has crashed about 4 times this morning. Not sure what's causing that.
Yeah, I don't know what to make of the polls, but I know I don't trust them.
By blaming both whites and blacks for racial tensions, he triangulated the problem.
And, of course, he changed the subject from his Pastor Eruption.
He out-Clintoned even the Clintons and somewhere, Bill Clinton is marveling over how he backed the wrong horse in this race.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03212008/news/colum...
The thought of him back in the White House....no, no, no.
compare / contrast
2008 / 1992
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/s... / http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=...
It'd be a great thing if we had an election where you had two people who love this country, who were devoted to the interest of the country and people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues instead of all this other stuff which always seems to intrude on our politics.
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2008_03_16_archive.h...
Hillary Clinton
The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder revolve around a pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and sense of entitlement. Often individuals feel overly important and will exaggerate achievements and will accept, and often demand, praise and admiration despite worthy achievements. They may be overwhelmed with fantasies involving unlimited success, power, love, or beauty and feel that they can only be understood by others who are, like them, superior in some aspect of life.
There is a sense of entitlement, of being more deserving than others based solely on their superiority. These symptoms, however, are a result of an underlying sense of inferiority and are often seen as overcompensation. Because of this, they are often envious and even angry of others who have more, receive more respect or attention, or otherwise steal away the spotlight.
It's over.
Have you noticed that Obama is all about McCain now? Ignoring Hillary?
There's a reason.
You Democrats have put yourselves in THE TRICK BAG.
lmao ... lol ... and there is no way out.
But... given what the GOP has done to our country over the past decade, and given how McCain is clearly running as "more of the same", I think it's the Republicans who are should be worried.
That's why the corporate media is going full out to destroy Obama and Clinton (depending on which one is leading at the time!) and not treating McCain the same way. If they went into McCain's record and Bush's with the same critical eye, and actually stuck to the story and reported it, Bush would have been impeached already and McCain would lose in a landslide.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
you can go home now.
C'mon Johnny, just say it, you know you want to........ just say nigger. Because as an ex-Republican I trust your motives about as much as any other GOP hack. For some reason bashing Hillary makes your dick hard, and your drooling on Obama is past the sickening phase.
Pack up you bullshit "I'm a flaming liberal now" site and go back to being a closet republican dick-licker, OK? Now ban me for another week or so.
OT:
I'm getting frequent error reports when I clink links here or refresh. No problems on other sites. Anyone else?