Deeply ironic velvet clad perverts. Stay the fuck out of our country.
Of course THIS will launch Ayatollah Donohue and his flying monkeys on a camera and microphone blitz.
Cuneiformed
· 11 months ago
The Vatican also lifted the excommunication of a Holocaust denier. Not that they don't have the right to, but it certainly does allow one to question the Church's priorities when it comes to stances on "ethics."
those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.
naschkatzehussein
· 11 months ago
"What is important is to know how to listen. . . without locking oneself in ideological visions of a person, who, having the power, thinks they (sic) can decide on life and death." Excuse me, Mr. Priest, but you are talking about yourself and your arrogant church, not about our President Obama.
foxy
· 11 months ago
Why did you even waste an article on this ex-Nazi...BTW, is that like being ex-Gay?
naschkatzehussein
· 11 months ago
It clears the sinuses.
Matt
· 11 months ago
Where were these self righteous voices, when Bush and Cheney lied to the world, and thousands of poor Iraqis were killed? We only heard a weak voice of protest, and then silence.
The pope still cannot get the fact that had Bush Snr and Babs used birth control, we would not have had Dumbya, who wreaked havoc in the world!
dr
· 11 months ago
hey matt,
who do u think killed more innocent people... saddam or bush? read history... then come back and repost.. dont just read the ny times or watch msnbc....
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 11 months ago
The illegal occupation in Iraq has killed well over 1.3 million.
dr, does it really matter the numbers of who had more???
It's unconscionable that numbers are used to base your argument on who was less of a terrorist, bush or saddam.
And for the record, many of saddams weapons were given to him by the US. The bush crime family invaded a country based on a lie, and you think that's ok??
Milli
· 11 months ago
I guess ending state-sanctioned torture, closing black site prisons throughout the world, ending an unjust war, aiding the Gazans who just had the crap bombed out of them, just isn't enough for some people. Speaking as a former Catholic, the Pope can go to hell. Bring on the lightning. I know what side Jesus would be on in this insane argument.
Milli
· 11 months ago
And who the hell is he to tell us what we did or didn't take into consideration in OUR election? Self-righteous ass.
TheOriginalLiz
· 11 months ago
No one knows arrogance like the Vatican.
Verchiel
· 11 months ago
Now *what* was that about arrogance and the destruction of human life?
Bishop Richard Williamson, Holocaust Denier, Reinstated By Pope
VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI has lifted the excommunications of four traditionalist bishops, including that of a Holocaust denier whose rehabilitation sparked outrage among Jewish groups.
The four bishops were excommunicated 20 years ago after they were consecrated by the late ultraconservative Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre without papal consent _ a move the Vatican said at the time was an act of schism.
The Vatican said Saturday that Benedict rehabilitated the four as part of his efforts to bring Lefebvre's Society of St. Pius X back into the Vatican's fold.
But the move came just days after one of the four, British Bishop Richard Williamson, was shown in a Swedish state TV interview saying that historical evidence "is hugely against 6 million Jews having been deliberately gassed."
I am truly, deeply ashamed of my church for this action and hope this provokes such an outcry it is reversed. These are not the words of Christ. They are the words of evil.
Why should anyone give a rats ass what the Vatican thinks or says? The Vatican, the Catholic church in general have the sins of many on there hands all through its history ...of late, the blind eye to the holocaust and more recently church condoned and enabled pedophilia. The German pope is just slightly off being a full blown racist and his man love for W is and was sickening. To the Vatican:
WE NOW HAVE RETURNED TO OUR FOUNDING FATHERS TENANTS WHICH IS THE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. IN SHORT MIND YOUR DAMN BUSINESS AND IF YOU CANNOT WIN SOULS BY EXAMPLE THEN LETS SELL SOME OF YOUR REAL ESTATE AND ASSETS AND SEE IF THAT MIGHT SET THE ECONOMIES OF THE AMERICAS AND EUROPE RIGHT. TALK ABOUT A GOOD IDEA OF NATIONALISING!!!!!!!
Sorry for the rant but ......
grandma
· 11 months ago
Well said !
Karen
· 11 months ago
To paraphrase the punk rock anthem, "Nazi Pope fuck off!"
Diogenes
· 11 months ago
Look at you, Aravosis! Kickin' papal ass and takin' names! Go get 'em, kid!
Makin' me smile!
RainbowPhoenix
· 11 months ago
What I say, I say as a (lapsed) catholic: I put a lot of thought into ethics this election. I thought of the benefits of a pro-choice candidate who supports policies that make abortions less common. I considered which candidate would support policies that ensure the civil rights off ALL of God's children. I supported the candidate that would work to end a war that we were LIED into, saving countless live. I voted for the candidate with sound economic ideas that would restrict poverty and famine. I voted for the candidate whose health care ideas would improve the quality of life for millions. This "moral" leader has destroyed his own credibility, and he has no business lecturing me on ethics.
Kiwi Jackson
· 11 months ago
The Red Beanie Boys Club no likey Barack? No one could have anticipated this turn of events.........
scytherius
· 11 months ago
I have a good number of Catholic friends and none of them care, nor do they know any Catholics that care. I mean I read some online who seem to but that's about it.
lark83
· 11 months ago
John, I agree with everything you said. Completely. With one exception.
The Pope was drafted into the Hitler Youth. It was required of every 14 year old after 1939. There is no record of him being an enthusiastic member, or even attending meetings. At 16 he was drafted out of the seminary and into the anti-aircraft corps. Toward the end of the war he deserted his unit and went back home.
I've seen this charge made before on this blog and it always irritates me. The Pope, like 99.99% of his male clergy, is an idiot. I just don't like seeing false accusations of being a nazi made against anybody - not even him.
Besides, were liberals. We are more accurate/intelligent/superior than the idiot right wingnuts.
agentX
· 11 months ago
He didn't' attend any meetings, but his recent activities seem to show a leaning towards Nazi philosophies.
See the comments by others in this post for more details.
catdance
· 11 months ago
"being lectured to about ethics by a regime run by a former member of the Hitler Youth is, well, choice to say the least."
Bravo! I am still completely shocked that the Catholic Church is being run by a Nazi. If Ratzi didn't have the morality, or moral courage, to reject Nazism back then, he doesn't have the moral standing to tell anyone anything.
I'm a former Catholic who left the church as a teenager in the '70s when they started putting flags on the altar, but I always respected and defended the Church's right -- and DUTY -- to require Catholics to adhere to Catholic law.... as long as they didn't try to force it on everyone else.
That has changed with a vengeance, thanks in part to John Paul Deux having lived in Eastern Europe where being an active Catholic was a political act, and Solidarity succeeded with help from the Church -- hell, Solidarity WAS the Church. He brought those politics to Rome; his hypocritical moves in Nicaragua underscored that the Church was more concerned with money and power than with souls, and the poor.
The RC church is also trying desperately to gain some relevance in a world where they've seen evangelical churches gaining huge memberships. Right wing political operatives running "family" groups moved in, inciting parishioners with non-issues and moving them to the right. Sadly, they're coming late to the party -- talibangelicalism has had its day here in the US.
Steve
· 11 months ago
My giant invisible friend My giant invisible friend Wants every baby born Doesn't care if they are sick and poor My giant invisible friend
Thanks for posting. Thats just another example of stupid actions done by the catholic clergy. \
I think pedophilia occured in something like 68 of America's 75 dioceses. 68 out of 68 times the Bishop failed to do the right thing and instead just covered up a horrific crime. You can't find good people out of this group. They just don't exist. I blame it on the bullshit celebacy rule.
RainbowPhoenix
· 11 months ago
There are good people. They're just stuck on the bottom rung.
peckster
· 11 months ago
may be if the vatican had been as concerned about the little pedophile priest problem they had (and i'm sure still have), so many people wouldn't be emotionally traumatized. seriously, who gives a damn what a guy who wears a pointy hat and red shoes thinks anyway?
gonzalez
· 11 months ago
I'm catholic hoewever, scre the Vatican! These idiots are not running my life or telling me who to vote for. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rick
· 11 months ago
Has the Catholic church run out of little boys to abuse? Every 11 minutes, a kid is abused by a "priest." Sick assholes.
scytherius
· 11 months ago
My loathing for these people knows no bounds. They will let women die rather than have them abort a zygote. So many reports of women brutally raped in these countries and they can't give them any medical care where abortion might be discussed because of the old rule. So the women just die. The evil in the world are these people, not some poor helpless woman. Utter low lifes.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 11 months ago
arrogant low-lifes who don't know how to listen.
Mary
· 11 months ago
The Vatican supported the Nazis in WW2. And they abuse millions of children every year. Fuck them.
Pete
· 11 months ago
The Pope is a Nazi. Jesus was gay. Mary was a whore. "God" is a myth. Bush is a war criminal. The Vatican is a den of pedophiles.
Rob Mule
· 11 months ago
The mother of Jesus was not a whore. If you mean Mary Magdalen you are just repeating early church smears intended to erase the importance of this woman to Jesus and his followers, to generally reduce the status of females and the connection to the concept of a mother goddess.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 11 months ago
Right you are.... because god forbid you have a women gain power in the "church", at least in those times.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 11 months ago
memo to cardinal ratzinger:
"What is important is to know how to listen... without locking oneself into ideological visions with the arrogance of a person who, having the power, thinks they can decide on life and death."
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
"The arrogance of someone who believes they are right" Isn't it interesting how very often those who do, accuse others of doing. Those who are, accuse others of being. We see this so often. The Vatican is just so sure of it's own viewpoints that they don't see how they appear to the rest of us. They really should get in touch.
Rob Mule
· 11 months ago
Global indifference just has to kill Contradict the XVI, Holy Mom's very own Bush II-style pope...The unprecedented plotting and favor-trading manner in which he wheedled his way onto the Throne of St. Peter and his thought-control hobby and absence of vital central casting role attributes reek with a Dubya-fied aroma...The dress-up-Barbie pope outfits also give this doomed papacy the crazed visual feel of Dubya-speak at its most wince-inducing.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
I will never forget when the cameras zoomed in on him as he emerged victorious onto the balcony above St. Peter's Square on the day of his election and the world got its first glimpse of its new Pope. One look at that face and I thought, "Oh my god, they've elected the devil!!"
The eyebags, dirty teeth and stained fingers and he looked so damn smug and satisfied in perfectly tailored vestments by his personal tradition-breaking designer... This link might make him want to get out his make-up mirror, record player and 45s of Bobby Sherman and dream, lost in a swirl of taffeta. http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Papal-...
The Tim Channel
· 11 months ago
Catholics are just one variation on the line of religious asshats bound for the dustbin of history. They are just responsible for this days daily outrageous religous dumbfuckery. Yesterday they were holding hands with the Mormons on PropHate. The Baptists and Mormons are in shock that a man bearing the mark of Cain is POTUS. Creationists are promoting The Flintsones as the epitome of scientific evidence. Scientologists are babbling against modern medicine like a bunch of faith healing Christian Scientists.
They will never survive the onslaught on the information superhighway. Mark my words. Religion is the electronic roadkill of the new century.
Enjoy.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
I so wish that would be true, but I fear until science can offer eternal life, people will stick with whatever institution offers the right myth.
Brad
· 11 months ago
Science and religion are in competition to save people.
Death-orientation is being aggressively marketed as a philosophy by the major religions.
You can go to heaven, meet up with dead loved ones, meet a really nice god.
If it had a grain of truth, I imagine it being an H.P. Lovecraft type scenario, of having some portion of oneself reconstituted and turned into a fuel source for an alien space ship, mindlessly singing-droning in an" eternal" choir.
(shudder)
Verchiel
· 11 months ago
I AM a Catholic and I'm embarrassed by what PapaRatzi did, here.
That said, shithammer the relevant parties and not the entirety of the faith, if you must.
Otherwise it's the same bullshit the WingNuts do to Islam...
james
· 11 months ago
I think it's a positive sign that someone at the Vatican was able to stop raping children long enough to make a statement. It would seem the Catholics are making progress.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
Well, what can we expect from a very political organization headed by a former Hitlerjunge who spent much of his career destroying careers as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith - once known as the Holy Office of the Inquisition. The last person executed by the Inquisition was a poor Spanish school teacher by the name of Cayetano Ripoll in the year 1826. His crime was that he taught Deism. Thomas Jefferson and many of the founding Fathers were Deists, though you won't hear the Evangelicals mention it. I guess anti-American sentiment runs deep in Vatican circles.
Rob Mule
· 11 months ago
Anti-Catholic sentiment still runs deep out here in the Know Nothing boonies of the Mason-Dixon-hugging midwest (I mean the nativist political movement of the 19th century)... Many a fundie will whisper "Catholic" behind a back-turned hand with the same hate and horror they would use to whisper "Jew" or the N word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing
Nick
· 11 months ago
Hey vatican! No need to capitalize yourself any more. Fuck off.
Blaise
· 11 months ago
Correction: Bush was not "pro-life." The very idea is laughable.
He was anti-choice.
jurassicpork
· 11 months ago
Remember reading about Bush's last public appearance before the inauguration? It was some celebration of the sanctity of life bullshit. Was it the sanctity of the lives of US troops that he'd needlessly put in harm's way? The lives of the people of New Orleans?
Nopers. It was the precious unborn lives, theoretical lives. Even in his final moments of power, he couldn't put the evangelical bullshit aside.
pupmunchkin
· 11 months ago
Yes, I agree. The "pro-life" bullshit and the HHS NEW RULES actually made me despise Bushie even more, which I did not think was possible. He must have had a very long list of IOU's.
burro
· 11 months ago
Good post.
Apphouse50
· 11 months ago
What, no papal kudos to BHO for his bold stance on torture? Why! This very pope has formally condemned it (as had his predecessor if I'm not mistaken)! So does the Prez get any points for that?
Doesn't matter. The RCC has been working hard to marginalize itself for decades (if not centuries). And, like its membership, the entire organization cherrypicks what it chooses to stand for. I do think, though, that any discussion of "ethics" ought to be off the table for them, but that's just me. I suppose some people like watching them make fools out of themselves. At this point, I wish they'd just finish the marginalizing job.
To his credit, Obama knows their position and doesn't give a damn. I knew I liked that guy.
AdmNaismith
· 11 months ago
When the Catholic Church stops fucking children...
Do I even have to finish that sentence?
We all know that when people have all the information there is about sex and reproduction, abortion goes down all by iteslf.
jurassicpork
· 11 months ago
First off, get a spokesman who speaks English, and not German spoken as English. Second, don't lecture us about our elections, when your election is based on a smokestack. And finally, being lectured to about ethics by a regime run by a former member of the Hitler Youth is, well, choice to say the least.
Ha ha ha. Ya still got it, Johnny boy. Ya still got it.
Ann
· 11 months ago
And this is the same Vatican that has essentially condoned pedophile priests who sexually assault children. Not just one or two priests, but hundreds. And they also refuse to consider married priests because of the so-called celibacy issue. So, sexual relations between consenting adults is forbidden in the church, but kids are a-okay. Shouldn't pro-life apply to people beyond birth.
ShirleyGoodnessanMercy
· 11 months ago
The entire Vatican City is a bunch of toe-tapping-in-the-stall Closet Cases. It is the world capitol of Hypocrisy.
FUCK Miss Benedict XVI!!
powwow500
· 11 months ago
As a former Catholic, fuck the Vatican. A bunch of old white guys who don't know shit about modern life.
Jennifer
· 11 months ago
I guess it's tough for the Vatican to lose it's buddy in Washington. Boo fucking hoo. Since PappaRazzo has been wearing the white dress, there has been more shit out of that piece of real estate than I can keep track of. The latest (which someone has mentioned below) is the rehabilitation of the Lefebvrists. These guys are dyed in the wool anti-semite pigs that should not be permitted to minister to anyone. Clue: this is Mel Gibson's pack of freaks that broke with the Vatican after Vatican II. They are despicable, evil people. Good on Andrew Sullivan to call the Vatican on this. It's not like Razzo will care, though. He's about as arrogant an old fuck as you can find, anywhere on earth. He has reinstated the prayer in the old Latin Mass for the conversion of the Jews, the disgusting pig. Seriously. He's shown himself, repeatedly, to be an lying sack of shit. He actually co-authored a book with a prominent Jewish theologian before he was Pope. What a lying, foul pig. Fai a bacciar' il mi' culo, Pappa Stronzo!
Dave of the Jungle
· 11 months ago
Papal Fart = " Rat Zinger "
steve
· 11 months ago
John,
Bennie the Pope has undone the excommunications of 4 traditionalist bishops, noe of which is a strident holocaust denier, and all of whom were consecratedw without Vatican consent 20 years ago by the French ultra-conservative Catholic archbishop, Marcel Lefebvre.
Complaining about Obama? I think Bennie will have some trouble with Jewish folks too.
Way to go Bennie!
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
The day Ratzinger was elected was the last gasp of Vatican II.
I was willing to give Pope Benedict the benefit of the doubt after his "ascension" on the Hilter Youth thing, but not anymore.
NOW he clearly shows what side of the fence he and the Vatican are on, were on, and will always be on.
President Obama, it might be time to consider revoking the Catholic Church's tax-exempt status.
Indigo
· 11 months ago
They're funny when they talk theology. It's all backwards talk as if they're reciting into a mirror: Watch-the-watch; watch-the-watch; watch-the-watch.
Indigo
· 11 months ago
And what's more, Are all Catholics in the United States now obliged under pain of sin to take up arms against our elected government the way they did in Spain in 1936?
TimK
· 11 months ago
John, your comment about the guy's English is massively out of line. We can't expect people from other countries to speak English like natives.
That said, I thought this quote was incredibly ironic:
What is important is to know how to listen... without locking oneself into ideological visions with the arrogance of a person who, having the power, thinks they can decide on life and death[.]
Um, yeah. It would be nice if some of the Catholic hierarchy could figure that out too.
devans00
· 11 months ago
How dare a foreigner, i.e. non voting American citizen, who wrote the following sentence lecture anyone about arrogance? "I do not believe that those who voted for him took into consideration ethical themes..."
Just because we didn't vote his way doesn't mean we are ignorant of the issues. After all, it was American's who voted to make abortion legal, not some group of people from outer space.
SuzyQ
· 11 months ago
i was raised Catholic and I am ashamed. I hid my shame and guilt for years. I had to attend the 12 step program. I am now free of the shame but not of the filth.
VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI has lifted the excommunications of four traditionalist bishops, including that of a Holocaust denier whose rehabilitation sparked outrage among Jewish groups.
David
· 11 months ago
They need abortion to be outlawed, that way there are more kids to take advantage of every year.
Ben Dover
· 11 months ago
Those quoted comments in the story must have been written comments. There is no way Archbishop Rino Fisichella could speak that clearly with his mouth full.
LawMichigander
· 11 months ago
The Vatican can go you know what it self. No one has an obligation to follow anyone that elects former Hitler Youth, discriminates, protects abusive priests. They should be striving for saving people in dire straights and not this muck raking lower priority stuff.
-9 time Descendant of Charlemagne -Cousin of the Bourbon Kings, descended from a Bourbon Cadet Line.
Laur
· 11 months ago
Amazing that this Pope, who was in the Hitler Youth, would have anything to say about it. Of course, he also had to apologize for insulting the Muslims. Even though we're not a Catholic country, I have to wonder if pro-choice Catholics in the U.S. are embarrassed by this guy, or if they ignore his statements.
tig
· 11 months ago
Well said. Very well said. and don't forget they had (and have) no problem with many among their ranks buggering young boys.
okojo
· 11 months ago
Arrogance?!?!? Arrogance is allowing a holocaust denier back into the church, even when many outside religious groups have asked the Pontiff not to do this...
I always find it ironic that the Vatican have been waving their arms in impotent fury about reproductive rights when Italy has had legalized abortion since 1978.
Mark217
· 11 months ago
We are not a catholic country, but five out of nine Supreme Court justices are Roman Catholic (Catholic men making reproductive choices for women). So the Vatican does have a certain toe-hold in the high court. I hope Obama appoints an atheist to the court.
KISSman
· 11 months ago
Shut up you self-appointed nobodies! God, I hate them. LOL
They think their opinion on such matters is just so darn important, but it's really no more valid than anyone elses. In fact, it's LESS valid because they are not elected officials who make and uphold real laws concerning such matters for the people. The people have no say in the direction of the church and the view of the church is dictated to the people. Fun.
And furthermore, stop pretending to know what the American people think, you religious kooks in Vatican City. You have no idea what we think or what it's like to be one of us. Fuck you.
Gruntled
· 11 months ago
Vatican: Who?
k2readone
· 11 months ago
I have lived with the Catholic church my whole life, through baptism, communion, confirmation, and my wedding. But this is it, never again shall I choose to enter a Catholic church. All I can say to them is "FUCK OFF! Go check the history books, you are responsible for more deaths in history than any government, ever! Fucking hypocrites"
youngharry
· 11 months ago
The Vatican has caused more deaths throughout history than any country. Their pious rants about the unborn simply don't fly when they don't give a damn about the living. They praise Bush, even though he has been responsible for thousands and thousands of deaths.
Fuck the Vatican and fuck the Nazi Pope. They are morally and intellectually dishonest hypocrites.
Non_Compassionate_Liberal
· 11 months ago
I hated Bush, and as an atheist, I think I hate religion more because it dumbs down the world. But when you say, "The Vatican had no problem with Bush's warmongering" -- that's not true. Both popes were against Bush going into Iraq. Bush even went there and tried to convince them of his point of view, and they stood firm.
Does this nazi have functioning uterus??? Then he should have no vote on anyone else's.
caphillprof
· 11 months ago
The dirty little secret is that this country has more former catholics or ex catholics than practicing catholics.
Apphouse50
· 11 months ago
Just days after the clergy abuse scandal broke up here in Boston a few years back, Boston's Cardinal Law, who reassigned pedophile priests (including Father Shanley, who took frequent trips to Thailand -- I wonder what for?) so they could have a new batch of unsuspecting parents and kids, headed down to Philadelphia to a fundraiser put on by either the Knights of Columbus or Catholic Charities (I think it was the latter).
Upon stepping up to the podium, Cardinal Law was given a standing ovation by the attendees. This is the same Cardinal Law who was later reassigned to a cushy post at the Vatican, where, he reports, he does penance every day in his prayers for the myriad abuses he overlooked that wrecked a lot of lives.
This standing ovation, I think, more than anything else, is what told me all I need to know of the Church I grew up in and was educated in. There were many very good priests and nuns, but there were far too many who spoke to us in classrooms and from pulpits who should have been in jail for child abuse and pedophilia.
About 3 years or so ago I attended a session in Boston given by representatives of the Irish government who were seeking expatriates living in the US who had suffered child abuse and pedophilia in Ireland's industrial schools (run mostly by Christian Brothers who have refused to release records -- see http://www.paddydoyle.com/tobin.html) and elsewhere. The government had a fund to provide reparations to anyone who would document their stories. These men were victims themselves. They appeared on a radio program hosted by Mike Barnicle to implore anyone listening who had a right to such reparations to attend the meeting to review what they'd need to do. I was not such a victim (but my friend's father was), but decided to go anyway, expecting a good sized crowd. Besides those men and myself, I think there were at most 4 or 5 victims there, mostly women. Men find it hard to confront such an episode in their history.
jeffg166
· 11 months ago
I turned in my Catholic card 42 years ago. No regrets.
Mark217
· 11 months ago
I don't really think Bush was "pro-life"? Perhaps he was "pro-life" in the eyes of the Republican Party. Bush is a mass murderer, a war criminal, a sponsor of torture, and his economic policies increased the number of humans living in poverty and hunger. Maybe if Bush is indicted in the USA, he can escape and go live in Vatican City and clear brush in the papal gardens.
lily
· 11 months ago
I have been arguing this point for the last 8 years! It makes me so angry when people call me or people with my political views immoral for being pro-choice. I am disgusted by the focus on one specific issue, without looking at the global picture. People who are pro-choice are not pro-abortion, but we believe in women's rights. We believe in prevention- birth control and condoms, not abstinence only, providing options for the woman to carry the baby to term, and in the end we believe we cannot control what another woman does with her body. I actually understand why some people are pro-life, I welcome the debate, but they should understand that my position is based on morality and values as well.
Apparently when this senior vatican official said : "I do not believe that those who voted for him took into consideration ethical themes, which were astutely left aside during the election debate.", he forgot that we have suffered through the injustices of the Iraq war, the handling of hurricane Katrina, war crimes, torture, and the promotion of incompetence (see Brownie, Gonzales, and Palin).
Milli
· 11 months ago
Amen. Totally.
Eyeball_Kid
· 11 months ago
The Catholic Church STILL refuses to admit that we're in the 21st century, and that prevention of pregnancy has its benefits as a hedge against overpopulation, which is a clear and undisputed danger to the survival of the human species. The Church still officially denounces contraception as a sin, even if millions of US and European Catholics ignore the Church on this issue.
mona31
· 11 months ago
while i agree with your larger point it is factually inaccurate to claim that the Vatican had no problem with Bush's warmongering; Pope John Paul II condemned the Iraq invasion from the start and the war on terror's accompanying humanitarian catastrophes, in no uncertain terms. they liked his pro-life and anti-gay stance, but were not really cheerleaders for his other policies. go ahead and condemn the Vatican for the whole host of things for which criticism is well deserved, but don't ignore inconvenient facts.
Wesinoregon
· 11 months ago
If they would do their work right there would be fewer abortions. Why can't they keep their hetero sex under control?
truebluecoondog
· 11 months ago
Last time I checked, the Vatican was in ROME. Why is what any pope says relevant here in the U.S.?
Eyeball_Kid
· 11 months ago
To be fair, the previous pope, John Paul II, DID make an announcement in 2003 that there is no moral justification for invading Iraq. Now, as the "moral leader" of the Catholic Church, a statement such as this should have been examined more closely by the press, because it has staggering repercussions if taken logically and seriously. JP II was alluding to the 5th Commandment and all of it's derivatives, which include the moral justification for murder, largely resting on a rationale for self-defense. If there is no self defense, such as in a defensive war, then there is no justification for murder. JP II was "HINTING" that Bush's pre-emptive invasion of Iraq was, indeed, mass murder. But the Vatican didn't press the issue, didn't state the logical conclusion to its announcement about the invasion, to its disgrace.
Why the Vatican hasn't been more "pro-Life" on issues relating to Bush's invasion must be seen as politically motivated. They simply won't believe that ordinary people can examine and criticize them for their glaring hypocrisy and tragically diminished moral authority. And as of today, the Vatican STILL hasn't stated the obvious.
martin
· 11 months ago
If the Catholic Church want to get involved in politics, they should be subjected to the same rules as any other political action committee
jimkhm
· 11 months ago
I couldn't have said it better myself, and as a recovering Catholic allow me to Echo the sentiment.
The Vatican had no problem embracing George Bush, and overlooked his innumerable sins, all because Bush was pro-life and anti-gay. The Vatican had no problem with Bush's warmongering, his torture, or his lack of interesting in the plight of the disadvantaged. Funny that none of that ever bothered the oh-so-ethical Vatican.
One final point the Vatican keeps overlooking. We're not a Catholic country, and nobody cares what they think. So go away.
mikeb302000
· 11 months ago
I'm afraid you're just mistaken about this, "(the) Vatican had no problem with Bush's warmongering." Maybe you weren't watching.
All Comments
As a youth he tried suicide. Hmmmm, we wonder why.
Also, get a load of his.....uh..... private secretary. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/16...
Of course THIS will launch Ayatollah Donohue and his flying monkeys on a camera and microphone blitz.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7849226.stm
then silence.
The pope still cannot get the fact that had Bush Snr and Babs used birth control, we
would not have had Dumbya, who wreaked havoc in the world!
who do u think killed more innocent people... saddam or bush?
read history... then come back and repost.. dont just read the ny times or watch msnbc....
dr, does it really matter the numbers of who had more???
It's unconscionable that numbers are used to base your argument on who was less of a terrorist, bush or saddam.
And for the record, many of saddams weapons were given to him by the US. The bush crime family invaded a country based on a lie, and you think that's ok??
Bishop Richard Williamson, Holocaust Denier, Reinstated By Pope
VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI has lifted the excommunications of four traditionalist bishops, including that of a Holocaust denier whose rehabilitation sparked outrage among Jewish groups.
The four bishops were excommunicated 20 years ago after they were consecrated by the late ultraconservative Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre without papal consent _ a move the Vatican said at the time was an act of schism.
The Vatican said Saturday that Benedict rehabilitated the four as part of his efforts to bring Lefebvre's Society of St. Pius X back into the Vatican's fold.
But the move came just days after one of the four, British Bishop Richard Williamson, was shown in a Swedish state TV interview saying that historical evidence "is hugely against 6 million Jews having been deliberately gassed."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/24/bishop...
I am truly, deeply ashamed of my church for this action and hope this provokes such an outcry it is reversed. These are not the words of Christ. They are the words of evil.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily...
WE NOW HAVE RETURNED TO OUR FOUNDING FATHERS TENANTS WHICH IS THE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. IN SHORT MIND YOUR DAMN BUSINESS AND IF YOU CANNOT WIN SOULS BY EXAMPLE THEN LETS SELL SOME OF YOUR REAL ESTATE AND ASSETS AND SEE IF THAT MIGHT SET THE ECONOMIES OF THE AMERICAS AND EUROPE RIGHT. TALK ABOUT A GOOD IDEA OF NATIONALISING!!!!!!!
Sorry for the rant but ......
Makin' me smile!
No one could have anticipated this turn of events.........
The Pope was drafted into the Hitler Youth. It was required of every 14 year old after 1939. There is no record of him being an enthusiastic member, or even attending meetings. At 16 he was drafted out of the seminary and into the anti-aircraft corps. Toward the end of the war he deserted his unit and went back home.
I've seen this charge made before on this blog and it always irritates me. The Pope, like 99.99% of his male clergy, is an idiot. I just don't like seeing false accusations of being a nazi made against anybody - not even him.
Besides, were liberals. We are more accurate/intelligent/superior than the idiot right wingnuts.
See the comments by others in this post for more details.
Bravo! I am still completely shocked that the Catholic Church is being run by a Nazi. If Ratzi didn't have the morality, or moral courage, to reject Nazism back then, he doesn't have the moral standing to tell anyone anything.
I'm a former Catholic who left the church as a teenager in the '70s when they started putting flags on the altar, but I always respected and defended the Church's right -- and DUTY -- to require Catholics to adhere to Catholic law.... as long as they didn't try to force it on everyone else.
That has changed with a vengeance, thanks in part to John Paul Deux having lived in Eastern Europe where being an active Catholic was a political act, and Solidarity succeeded with help from the Church -- hell, Solidarity WAS the Church. He brought those politics to Rome; his hypocritical moves in Nicaragua underscored that the Church was more concerned with money and power than with souls, and the poor.
The RC church is also trying desperately to gain some relevance in a world where they've seen evangelical churches gaining huge memberships. Right wing political operatives running "family" groups moved in, inciting parishioners with non-issues and moving them to the right. Sadly, they're coming late to the party -- talibangelicalism has had its day here in the US.
My giant invisible friend
Wants every baby born
Doesn't care if they are sick and poor
My giant invisible friend
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/24/bishop...
I think pedophilia occured in something like 68 of America's 75 dioceses. 68 out of 68 times the Bishop failed to do the right thing and instead just covered up a horrific crime. You can't find good people out of this group. They just don't exist. I blame it on the bullshit celebacy rule.
If you mean Mary Magdalen you are just repeating early church smears intended to erase the importance of this woman to Jesus and his followers, to generally reduce the status of females and the connection to the concept of a mother goddess.
"What is important is to know how to listen... without locking oneself into ideological visions with the arrogance of a person who, having the power, thinks they can decide on life and death."
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_b8cVMt5KsBc/SNgSo3I0Y...
This link might make him want to get out his make-up mirror, record player and 45s of Bobby Sherman and dream, lost in a swirl of taffeta.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Papal-...
They will never survive the onslaught on the information superhighway. Mark my words. Religion is the electronic roadkill of the new century.
Enjoy.
Death-orientation is being aggressively marketed as a philosophy by the major religions.
You can go to heaven, meet up with dead loved ones, meet a really nice god.
If it had a grain of truth, I imagine it being an H.P. Lovecraft type scenario, of having some portion of oneself reconstituted and turned into a fuel source for an alien space ship, mindlessly singing-droning in an" eternal" choir.
(shudder)
That said, shithammer the relevant parties and not the entirety of the faith, if you must.
Otherwise it's the same bullshit the WingNuts do to Islam...
Many a fundie will whisper "Catholic" behind a back-turned hand with the same hate and horror they would use to whisper "Jew" or the N word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing
No need to capitalize yourself any more.
Fuck off.
He was anti-choice.
Nopers. It was the precious unborn lives, theoretical lives. Even in his final moments of power, he couldn't put the evangelical bullshit aside.
Doesn't matter. The RCC has been working hard to marginalize itself for decades (if not centuries). And, like its membership, the entire organization cherrypicks what it chooses to stand for. I do think, though, that any discussion of "ethics" ought to be off the table for them, but that's just me. I suppose some people like watching them make fools out of themselves. At this point, I wish they'd just finish the marginalizing job.
To his credit, Obama knows their position and doesn't give a damn. I knew I liked that guy.
Do I even have to finish that sentence?
We all know that when people have all the information there is about sex and reproduction, abortion goes down all by iteslf.
Ha ha ha. Ya still got it, Johnny boy. Ya still got it.
FUCK Miss Benedict XVI!!
Bennie the Pope has undone the excommunications of 4 traditionalist bishops, noe of which is a strident holocaust denier, and all of whom were consecratedw without Vatican consent 20 years ago by the French ultra-conservative Catholic archbishop, Marcel Lefebvre.
Complaining about Obama? I think Bennie will have some trouble with Jewish folks too.
Way to go Bennie!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_b8cVMt5KsBc/SNgSo3I0Y...
NOW he clearly shows what side of the fence he and the Vatican are on, were on, and will always be on.
President Obama, it might be time to consider revoking the Catholic Church's tax-exempt status.
Are all Catholics in the United States now obliged under pain of sin to take up arms against our elected government the way they did in Spain in 1936?
That said, I thought this quote was incredibly ironic:
What is important is to know how to listen... without locking oneself into ideological visions with the arrogance of a person who, having the power, thinks they can decide on life and death[.]
Um, yeah. It would be nice if some of the Catholic hierarchy could figure that out too.
"I do not believe that those who voted for him took into consideration ethical themes..."
Just because we didn't vote his way doesn't mean we are ignorant of the issues. After all, it was American's who voted to make abortion legal, not some group of people from outer space.
VATICAN CITY – Pope Benedict XVI has lifted the excommunications of four traditionalist bishops, including that of a Holocaust denier whose rehabilitation sparked outrage among Jewish groups.
-9 time Descendant of Charlemagne
-Cousin of the Bourbon Kings, descended from a Bourbon Cadet Line.
I always find it ironic that the Vatican have been waving their arms in impotent fury about reproductive rights when Italy has had legalized abortion since 1978.
They think their opinion on such matters is just so darn important, but it's really no more valid than anyone elses. In fact, it's LESS valid because they are not elected officials who make and uphold real laws concerning such matters for the people. The people have no say in the direction of the church and the view of the church is dictated to the people. Fun.
And furthermore, stop pretending to know what the American people think, you religious kooks in Vatican City. You have no idea what we think or what it's like to be one of us. Fuck you.
Fuck the Vatican and fuck the Nazi Pope. They are morally and intellectually dishonest hypocrites.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/world/europe/...
Then he should have no vote on anyone else's.
Upon stepping up to the podium, Cardinal Law was given a standing ovation by the attendees. This is the same Cardinal Law who was later reassigned to a cushy post at the Vatican, where, he reports, he does penance every day in his prayers for the myriad abuses he overlooked that wrecked a lot of lives.
This standing ovation, I think, more than anything else, is what told me all I need to know of the Church I grew up in and was educated in. There were many very good priests and nuns, but there were far too many who spoke to us in classrooms and from pulpits who should have been in jail for child abuse and pedophilia.
About 3 years or so ago I attended a session in Boston given by representatives of the Irish government who were seeking expatriates living in the US who had suffered child abuse and pedophilia in Ireland's industrial schools (run mostly by Christian Brothers who have refused to release records -- see http://www.paddydoyle.com/tobin.html) and elsewhere. The government had a fund to provide reparations to anyone who would document their stories. These men were victims themselves. They appeared on a radio program hosted by Mike Barnicle to implore anyone listening who had a right to such reparations to attend the meeting to review what they'd need to do. I was not such a victim (but my friend's father was), but decided to go anyway, expecting a good sized crowd. Besides those men and myself, I think there were at most 4 or 5 victims there, mostly women. Men find it hard to confront such an episode in their history.
Apparently when this senior vatican official said : "I do not believe that those who voted for him took into consideration ethical themes, which were astutely left aside during the election debate.", he forgot that we have suffered through the injustices of the Iraq war, the handling of hurricane Katrina, war crimes, torture, and the promotion of incompetence (see Brownie, Gonzales, and Palin).
Why the Vatican hasn't been more "pro-Life" on issues relating to Bush's invasion must be seen as politically motivated. They simply won't believe that ordinary people can examine and criticize them for their glaring hypocrisy and tragically diminished moral authority. And as of today, the Vatican STILL hasn't stated the obvious.
The Vatican had no problem embracing George Bush, and overlooked his innumerable sins, all because Bush was pro-life and anti-gay. The Vatican had no problem with Bush's warmongering, his torture, or his lack of interesting in the plight of the disadvantaged. Funny that none of that ever bothered the oh-so-ethical Vatican.
One final point the Vatican keeps overlooking. We're not a Catholic country, and nobody cares what they think. So go away.