"Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."
Clinton's faith is grounded in the Methodist beliefs she grew up with in Park Ridge, Illinois, a conservative Chicago suburb where she was active in her church's altar guild, Sunday school, and youth group. It was there, in 1961, that she met the Reverend Don Jones, a 30-year-old youth pastor; Jones, a friend of Clinton's to this day, told us he knows "more about Hillary Clinton's faith than anybody outside her family."
Because Jones introduced Clinton and her teenage peers to the civil rights movement and modern poetry and art, Clinton biographers often cast him as a proto-'60s liberal who sowed seeds of radicalism throughout Park Ridge. Jones, though, describes his theology as neoorthodox, guided by the belief that social change should come about slowly and without radical action. It emerged, he says, as a third way, a reaction against both separatist fundamentalism and the New Deal's labor-based liberalism.
Under Jones' mentorship, Clinton learned about Reinhold Niebuhr and Paul Tillich—thinkers whom liberals consider their own, but whom young Hillary Rodham encountered as theological conservatives. The Niebuhr she studied was a cold warrior, dismissive of the progressive politics of his earlier writing. "He'd thought that once we were unionized, the kingdom of God would be ushered in," Jones explains. "But the effect of those two world wars and the violence that they produced shook his faith in liberal theology. He came to believe that the achievement of justice meant a clear understanding of the limitations of the human condition." Tillich, whose sermon on grace Clinton turned to during the Lewinsky scandal, today enjoys a following among conservatives for revising the social gospel—the notion that Christians are to improve humanity's lot here on earth by fighting poverty, inequality, and exploitation—to emphasize individual redemption instead of activism."
"There is a lot of pressure on the active Army, and during this transition period where the military is converting to noncombat roles, a shift to contractors as trainers for the expanding Iraqi military is a natural step." He added, however, that the outcome "depends on the quality of those the contractors recruit.
We are currently spending $12 billion a month to have our boys and girls over there. Now we are going to hire some more contractors (currently more contractors than troops in Iraq). Why don't we just bring our troops home and have the contractors fight the war. The transfer of wealth would continue to Bushco and we wouldn't lose any of our armed forces.
I guess the story really confirms we are not qualified to do anything, even though we have been supposedly training Iraqi troops for the past 4 years.
Oh, please. So now Clinton is advocating marriages of convenience because of her "faith"? Yeah, and if she had divorced Bill, hadn't had his aura around her when she ran for NY senator (which also raised buckets of money), and couldn't have gotten Chelsea a job paying close to a million $$ a year...oh, wait. Gimme a break. And please tell me, how does one tolerate authoritarian male religion while claiming to be a real feminist? Real feminists do not recognize male authority over our lives (sorry, John).
And yes, John, lots of us women out here will not tolerate unethical behavior in our personal and professional lives. It has nothing whatsoever to do with traditional male dominated religion, either. We just refuse to play guilty when we're not.
lynchie
· 1 year ago
When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.
In light of the current focus on Rev. Wright I think the media should open this can of worms which Singing_Troll mentioned below.
There are a disturbing number of right wing nut jobs involved including Sanitarium as well as a number of Union Busting.
This is equally as disturbing.
Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.
I would like to hear from her about the Fellowships belief that the "Elite" win by the will of God. That is all we need another lying, religious nut job. We need to explore this.
donotmakemecomedownthere
· 1 year ago
It's okay for Hillary to say this, because her ministers have all been white, and her God is green. Anything, anything but the "b" color.
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
lynchie, the majority of those "contractors" esp. in outfits like Blackwater are former military.
It seems rather unpatriotic of them to go for the money instead of re-upping in the military...they're no different than the greedheads above them who are making billions on Iraq. Traitors for the gold...
mike31c
· 1 year ago
:lol: I was thinking she stayed with Billy since she knew if she did divorce Bill, SHE would be paying HIM spousal support since the Mrs. half of the duo had a job that paid more then being President of the US at the time (her book deals) :lol:
Well, I have to give her credit though. because, unlike the bug Newt Gingrich, or 9/11 Rudy Giuliani and some of the other right-wing wackos that spout their phony "family values" crap, Hilliary and Bill are still together (and I bet a little side action on the part of Bill somewhere)
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
I believe Clinton is pandering but to try and say what her motivation is, well I don't know. Who can say but Clinton herself and do you think she would say it was to further her career, never. I think stick to the outright lies she has told but don't play the guessing game.
Having said that, I think Singing Troll has a good point. No one has ever really discussed her affiliations with a conservative worship group.
donotmakemecomedownthere
· 1 year ago
We should all be thankful that good, upstanding, heterosexual couples like Bill and Hill are protecting the institution of sham marriages.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
I like how they act like Monica was some one-time fling.
Monica wasn't exactly the first, or likely the last, time Hillary's......um,...faith had been tested.
mmedefarge
· 1 year ago
Monica wasn't exactly the first, or likely the last, time Hillary's......um,...faith had been tested.
Bush Bites: you are correct about that. but I think that Monica is always the first that comes to mind because of the yuckiness of it on so many levels: her age, her job as an intern, the trysts in the Oval Office----the LIES upon LIES!
LynnDee
· 1 year ago
My goodness, it almost sounds like Hillary's saying she relies on her faith in difficult times! But that couldn't be, could it?!
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
Bush Bites, yes, notice how Paula, Kathleen, Gennifer, never come up anymore...and there are probably lots we never heard about. While it was hard to swallow (no pun intended) back then about these women, mainly because the Rethugs were pushing it, putting out dough to a couple of women who saw some publicity and actually needed the money and protection of someone for coming forth, I always felt there was a kernel of truth in their stories, even if they were who they were.
And what was he?
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Hillary stayed with her habitually philanderring redneck Rhodas Scholar husband because,among other reasons, of Chelsea and Janet R.
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
And from the MSM, nothing <insert sound of chirping crickets here>
Bluestocking
· 1 year ago
I for one find it a bit difficult to believe this latest statement from Clinton. Considering her rather preposterous efforts of late to give herself a more "down home" image (i.e., the "shot-and-a-beer" episode) in an attempt to make her criticism of Obama as an "elitist" seem justified, it strikes me that this is simply more of the same. My first impression is that this is nothing more than another effort to convince people that she's really an apple-pie wholesome, All-American girl-next-door at heart because she thinks this might win her the support of people who are disinclined to support McCain because they're disenchanted with Bush and yet conservative enough to have problems with the idea of voting for Obama. What Clinton fails to take into account is that in order for any of this to really seem believable, she would have needed to make this more apparent over the past decade or so which she really hasn't done. This image which Clinton has been trying to project lately is very much at odds with the way in which she's presented herself over the last two decades, which to a smart person makes it seem about as legitimate as a three-dollar bill. This is the kind of language that you might have heard and might have expected to hear from someone like Laura Bush...not from someone like Hillary Rodham Clinton.
shhhh
· 1 year ago
I've always felt that Hillary would never divorse Bill and it runs deeper than a quest for power. A messy divorse might stir up as much about Hillary as we already know about Bill.
And besides, he's the best beard a closet-case could hope for. Talk about convenience.
Swami_Binkinanda
· 1 year ago
Continuing in the Republican tradition of completely factless, telepathy or projection based personal attacks on the character of a person who runs for office. Gee, that's progress. That's how McCain will become president. By diving into the worst of the muck and pretending every Ken Starr propaganda attack was based on truth, you hand credibility over to the media-anointed crazy bumbling old man. The GOP and independents aren't going to vote for a black American whether he came from Harlem or Harvard. How's McCain on gay rights issues? Human rights in general? Privacy? Anything? Good luck with that.
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
So Hillary is trying to polish up her "madonna" image...must mean she considers the other women who bedded Bill whores. Such sisterhood!
Of course, Bill juggles women the way he does politics.
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
Sometimes I think she panders more to the Rush Limbaugh crowd than to Democrats.
GrahamCrackerDC
· 1 year ago
"Bush Bites, yes, notice how Paula, Kathleen, Gennifer, never come up anymore...and there are probably lots we never heard about"
When they did come up in the 90's, Democrats (Clinton apologists) screamed and yelled that they were lies, lies lies.
Are the stories about Bill true? Was he a sexual predator?
Or false?
Which is it?
DoctorJ
· 1 year ago
Yeah, Hill, whatever. Some dopey women voters may buy this, but the rest of us will just keep hoping this liar and cheat is gone in a month.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
No doubt that poor Clinton woman's piety and devotion to family and marriage vows will reward her with extra rhinestones in her heavenly crown.
dad
· 1 year ago
so it was the devil in a blue dress.
pander meander.
Sage24
· 1 year ago
Appropriate names for Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Lies about Bosnia and Ireland - Pinnochio Drinking beer and downing shots - Pandering drunk Talking about shooting and guns - Annie Oakley Endorsing McCain over Obama - Disloyal colleague Bringing the Democrats down - Spoiler Voting on Iraq, and talking about obliterating Iran - War monger with no judgment (like Bush). Ridiculing and mocking Obama - Petty and mean Dividing the Democratic party - Divisive and deadly Claiming to win the popular vote which "includes" Michigan and Florida - Desperate and In denial. Throwing the kitchen and toilet sink at Obama - Shameless and a follower of Karl Rove.
All this, and she has the highest negatives among all the candidates. Is this the nominee we really want to have?
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
"Lies about Bosnia and Ireland - Pinnochio Drinking beer and downing shots - Pandering drunk Talking about shooting and guns - Annie Oakley Endorsing McCain over Obama - Disloyal colleague Bringing the Democrats down - Spoiler Voting on Iraq, and talking about obliterating Iran - War monger with no judgment (like Bush). Ridiculing and mocking Obama - Petty and mean" --sage24
She, even more than McCain, personifies the evil entity the government has become.
We all know the depths of McCain's depravity and have for some time.
But HILLARY! Watching the contortions, her Pavlovian goosestep to all things John McCain and the Fascist agenda, her obfuscations, pettiness, vindictiveness, sense of entitlement, sheer psychotic interpretations of Obama the man...I could go on forever but we all know the score.
We are witnessing the self-immolation of a Goldwater Girl turned Democratic pretender. Her subconscious pushing her, pushing, pushing her to pour more gasoline over her head while waving around her blowtorch of flammable venom, defying the death of her candidacy yet actively hastening her future destruction.
In watching her, we are watching the last throes of Neoconism itself. She is no parody, she is the real deal.
grapecranberry
· 1 year ago
so hillary can stay married, even though her husband cheats, because of her religion, but obama can't stay in his church, even though his pastor says some messed-up things, because of his religion?
Sage24
· 1 year ago
More Dirty Tricks?
CLINTON CAMP CONSIDERING USING NUCLEAR OPTIONS TO OVERTAKE OBAMA IN THE DELEGATE COUNT.
People need to start showing up at her campaign speecher and throwing a tomato or two her way to show their disapproval.
firebrand
· 1 year ago
Good post Sage 24. And jeez-louise......those NUCLEAR OPTIONS STINK TO HIGH HEAVEN.
Betcha a lot of people will be seriously pissed if they try it.
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
Just as Junior worked out his Poppy issues during his failed terms so might HRC...dynastic succession in the manner of a post war Italian Hercules movie.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
"in the manner of a post war Italian Hercules movie." -- Prezzildent Dispondent
I always see her as "Fat Bastard" I have no idea why.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
speeches
DougStamate
· 1 year ago
In reply to grapecranberry: Most religions have the idea of forgiveness as a basic tenet. If someone does harm to you, physical, mental or emotional, you are supposed to try and forgive that person. I understand that Sen. Clinton considers herself a Christian; if so, this would simply be an example of her trying to do as her religion asks its practioners to do - practice fogiveness. It is not that easy to do. Sen. Obama can stay in his church if he so desires, the decision is his. If he is worried about what people will say he can tell them that he is a firm believer in the separation of church and state. Or he can demonstrate his priorities by resigning from his church to prevent any harm to his campaign. Works both ways for me.
Sage24
· 1 year ago
Good description, SInging Troll.
She is indeed making a spectacle of herself, and it ain't pretty.
I still can't understand how so many people in the Democratic party are willing to accept this behavior, which everyone, even around the world, has seen, and been disgusted. People are even willing to overlook her Iraq vote, and accept her rather reckless, war mongering, remark about obliterating Iran...isn't this the same reason they are turned off by Bush?
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
"So Hillary is trying to polish up her "madonna" image...must mean she considers the other women who bedded Bill whores. Such sisterhood!" Older and Wiser Thanks, O&W. I think Hillary knows Obama won't go there, so she thinks she is free to make up shit to polish her crown. But the crown is brown, Hillary.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
"May 4, 2008 Clinton: I'm not listening to economists on gas tax holiday
INDIANAPOLIS, Indiana (CNN) — In the face of criticism from a slate of economists who say her gas tax holiday plan would be ineffective or even harmful, Hillary Clinton said she wasn’t taking stock of their opinions and emphasized that this was a short-term fix that would primarily benefit long-distance drivers.
“I’m not going to put my lot in with economists,” Clinton told George Stephanopolous on ABC’s ‘This Week’ after he asked her to name a single economist supporting her plan. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/04...
BorninUSA
· 1 year ago
One more Hillary lie. Is the media going to continue to let her get by with her storytelling? All of a sudden she gets religion. How convenient. And here I thought she was planning this run for the POTUS even while Bill was in the hot seat. Shame on me!
GrahamCrackerDC
· 1 year ago
FIREBRAND, SAGE24
Regarding nuclear options -- it's going to happen. DNC chairman Dean said so yesterday:
Everyone assumed this desperate failure of a candidate would do this. The problem is this RICO like group pushing the orgnaized theft of the nomination cannot and will not get past the credentials committee.
1BobbyBlue2
· 1 year ago
Actually, kevinbgoode, methinks we may have to start calling her Hillary McClinton. She's more like John McScrewball every day.
And, dougstamate, may I quote in part from Nobel prize winner Steven Weinberg: " . . . for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Another irony is that while she feels controlled by people and events, she herself is overly controlling. She is afraid of allowing other people to be who they are and of allowing events to happen naturally. An expert in knowing best how things should turn out and how people should behave, the codependent person tries to control others through threats, coercion, advice giving, helplessness, guilt, manipulation, or domination."
grapecranberry
· 1 year ago
in reply to doug stamate: I was simply pointing out that there's clearly a bias in how Obama is viewed in relation to religion. I agree with you. Obama can go to any church he wants.
jr
· 1 year ago
the truth always has stretch marks when Hillary's done speaking
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Sage 24
One thing that nobody has addressed is the addition of 76 more super delegates. I mentioned this last night. Why add more super delegates? What is the reasoning behind this. So the total of super delegates goes up another 76.
maxstar212
· 1 year ago
Most men cheat. There would hardly be any married couples left if they didn't cheat. And that is talking about straight men. most Gay men I know cheat often. Actually, most gay men I know have had sex with hundreds of partners (if not thousands). I couldn't imagine leaving a lover if he cheats. I will truly feel represented if we have a Gay President who has an orgy with young men in the Oval office. That is what I would do if I was president. It would be natural. I consider myself married, but consider a dozen Les Hommes, or Lucas, or High Octane Stars in the Oval office. Why feel caught up in this straight, unrealistic view of monogamy. Does anyone believe in lifetime monogamy anymore. Long term relationships are built on more than sex. She kept her husband, while a lot of women her age are alone.
Sugapea
· 1 year ago
Max...You tell the truth regarding how most men think. "She kept her husband, while a lot of women her age are alone".
But Hillary gets taken to hell...go figure!
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
so Hillary's going the old traditional family values route, is she? (Didn't she once spit and hiss about not being 'one of those stand by your man kind of women who stays home and bakes cookies all day'...) Think we'll see Doctor James Dobson's endorsement any time soon?
I don't think Hillary can pass in evangelical-ville any better than McHagee can.
SociologistTina
· 1 year ago
tlsintx: "so Hillary's going the old traditional family values route, is she? (Didn't she once spit and hiss about not being 'one of those stand by your man kind of women who stays home and bakes cookies all day'...) Think we'll see Doctor James Dobson's endorsement any time soon?
I don't think Hillary can pass in evangelical-ville any better than McHagee can."
LOL. Great points.
GrahamCrackerDC
· 1 year ago
tbhull
"Everyone assumed this desperate failure of a candidate would do this. The problem is this RICO like group pushing the orgnaized theft of the nomination cannot and will not get past the credentials committee"
But Howard Dean has already said the delegations will be seated.
I actually think it's better to seat them, and have Obama still prevail -- it makes him more valid.
Otherwise, Hillary Clinton supporters will claim that Obama only got the nomination by leaving out two important states.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
I agree that they should be seated if re-votes are held in both states. I think re-votes should be held in both states. Absent re-votes, no clear way exists to seat these delegates fairly without either side having major complaints. Why can't they just do a re-vote in both states ran by the normal election apparatus in the states?
SociologistTina
· 1 year ago
I agree with you, John. However, I would take it a step farther. I believe she knew he was a philanderer long before she married him. At the time she also knew that he was headed for "great things," and therefore, so was she-- if she married him. I believe that her hesitations had to do with the requisite "sacrifices" that both of these required of her, because I don't believe that she married him for love. Not to say that she didn't truly love him, especially as time went on.
Anyway, she's not a woman that I admire when it comes to politics, career, OR relationships.
On the other hand, Elizabeth Edwards is my hero.
SociologistTina
· 1 year ago
Sage24: "Good description, SInging Troll.
She is indeed making a spectacle of herself, and it ain't pretty.
I still can't understand how so many people in the Democratic party are willing to accept this behavior, which everyone, even around the world, has seen, and been disgusted. People are even willing to overlook her Iraq vote, and accept her rather reckless, war mongering, remark about obliterating Iran...isn't this the same reason they are turned off by Bush?"
EXACTLY! Well said!
SociologistTina
· 1 year ago
Singing: "But HILLARY! Watching the contortions, her Pavlovian goosestep to all things John McCain and the Fascist agenda, her obfuscations, pettiness, vindictiveness, sense of entitlement, sheer psychotic interpretations of Obama the man...I could go on forever but we all know the score.
We are witnessing the self-immolation of a Goldwater Girl turned Democratic pretender. Her subconscious pushing her, pushing, pushing her to pour more gasoline over her head while waving around her blowtorch of flammable venom, defying the death of her candidacy yet actively hastening her future destruction.
In watching her, we are watching the last throes of Neoconism itself. She is no parody, she is the real deal."
Wow! I think you've really hit the nail on the head here with extreme eloquence!
I look forward to reading more from you! Thanks!
SociologistTina
· 1 year ago
Sage24:
"Appropriate names for Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Lies about Bosnia and Ireland - Pinnochio Drinking beer and downing shots - Pandering drunk Talking about shooting and guns - Annie Oakley Endorsing McCain over Obama - Disloyal colleague Bringing the Democrats down - Spoiler Voting on Iraq, and talking about obliterating Iran - War monger with no judgment (like Bush). Ridiculing and mocking Obama - Petty and mean Dividing the Democratic party - Divisive and deadly Claiming to win the popular vote which "includes" Michigan and Florida - Desperate and In denial. Throwing the kitchen and toilet sink at Obama - Shameless and a follower of Karl Rove.
All this, and she has the highest negatives among all the candidates. Is this the nominee we really want to have?"
Yes, I agree with you.
SociologistTina
· 1 year ago
DoctorJ: "Yeah, Hill, whatever. Some dopey women voters may buy this, but the rest of us will just keep hoping this liar and cheat is gone in a month."
Right!
juko
· 1 year ago
John, as someone who has faced exactly the same issue (fortunately not in front of the world) and made exactly the same decision, I am going to say this-- Forgiveness is an aspect of love for many of us. And yes, that's MANY. Talk to a few long-attached couples, and I bet that at least one will admit that their relationship was marred by this sort of betrayal at some point. Yeah. Really. I would never presume to judge another's choice in this matter, but for long-married people, often fidelity has a slightly lower value than family or just plain old love. I remember thinking that my mate was on the verge of a breakdown when he "strayed"-- and because I gave him another chance, he didn't fall apart entirely, and my young children had a sane dad still in the house. That's maybe not the decision you would have made, but it's the decision I made, and I'm glad I did. I could not desert him when he was in crisis (which he was, frankly, I mean, really, you should have met the evil witch he got entangled with, and then you'd know-- no one SANE would have fallen for her <G>).
I have never doubted that Hillary Clinton loves her husband passionately. Maybe I'm wrong, but what I see is someone who cares too much to let go. Maybe she's crazy. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe fidelity is the absolute #1 value for everyone but us. But I've seen too many relationships that have survived this very challenge to condemn her or judge her. And frankly, I cannot imagine being strong enough to do this in front of the world, to have the whole world know about it (seriously-- I didn't even tell my parents what was going on), and to have everyone judging you for doing whatever you did. I don't know that I could have behaved as sensibly and graciously as she did. And your judgement of her, to my view, seems to exhibit a rather shallow understanding of the complexity of human nature and of love. But I think you really do understand that, deep down. Open your heart. You don't have to like either Clinton to understand how there is no right answer when this happens to you-- there's only the answer that is right in this very particular situation. And the complex emotions and motives involved kind of defy consistency (like I've forgiven my husband, but that expletive-deleted adulteress? Well, I think rather badly of her, and I won't use any of the terms I would like to use, as I've given up swearing). The human heart really is too complex to be consistent-- and it gets worse, worse, worse, when it's played out in public, when your DAUGHTER is asked about it, when you can't escape it.
But yeah, I think the experience has made me a better person, and it's probably made Sen Clinton a better person too. Forgiveness never makes you a worse person, does it?
Smarmy
· 1 year ago
Hillary is no feminist and no devotee to religion. She and Bill have no marriage, in the traditional sense of the word. They have a deal, a partnership, 'do whatever you want' but don't let it get public. She wasn't pissed at his fling with Monica, as much as she was pissed that the fling was made public! He'd been having flings since he was governor of Arkansas (Gennifer Flowers - 7 years!). It became public and her ability to deal with the fling was in the public light. There is no marriage between the Clintons. There is a partnership. Hillary is vermin. And a liar. She wants the rules of the game changed for HER. That's how the Clintons win - by changing the rules to suit them. Are the American people stupid enough to fall for her line of crap? Perhaps in '92 they were. But no longer. It's a new day.
ericgoldman
· 1 year ago
I find this posting to be simply another in a long line of attempts here to sanitize the Reverend Wright story by drawing some kind of analogy to Bill Clinton, and yet another attempt to inject gender into this race.
Senator Obama has repeatedly been asking all of us to focus in the issues. Would that the powers that be at Americablog would head that call.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
ericgoldman 1 day ago
ericgoldman, if Hillary lives by the sword she should be prepared to die by the sword. since she has participated in the disproportionate skewering of Obama via Wright, i hope she's prepared to take that same medicine when the GOPers pour her up a nice, big spoonful.
All Comments
READ THIS
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09...
"Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."
Clinton's faith is grounded in the Methodist beliefs she grew up with in Park Ridge, Illinois, a conservative Chicago suburb where she was active in her church's altar guild, Sunday school, and youth group. It was there, in 1961, that she met the Reverend Don Jones, a 30-year-old youth pastor; Jones, a friend of Clinton's to this day, told us he knows "more about Hillary Clinton's faith than anybody outside her family."
Because Jones introduced Clinton and her teenage peers to the civil rights movement and modern poetry and art, Clinton biographers often cast him as a proto-'60s liberal who sowed seeds of radicalism throughout Park Ridge. Jones, though, describes his theology as neoorthodox, guided by the belief that social change should come about slowly and without radical action. It emerged, he says, as a third way, a reaction against both separatist fundamentalism and the New Deal's labor-based liberalism.
Under Jones' mentorship, Clinton learned about Reinhold Niebuhr and Paul Tillich—thinkers whom liberals consider their own, but whom young Hillary Rodham encountered as theological conservatives. The Niebuhr she studied was a cold warrior, dismissive of the progressive politics of his earlier writing. "He'd thought that once we were unionized, the kingdom of God would be ushered in," Jones explains. "But the effect of those two world wars and the violence that they produced shook his faith in liberal theology. He came to believe that the achievement of justice meant a clear understanding of the limitations of the human condition." Tillich, whose sermon on grace Clinton turned to during the Lewinsky scandal, today enjoys a following among conservatives for revising the social gospel—the notion that Christians are to improve humanity's lot here on earth by fighting poverty, inequality, and exploitation—to emphasize individual redemption instead of activism."
OY!
lol
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...
"There is a lot of pressure on the active Army, and during this transition period where the military is converting to noncombat roles, a shift to contractors as trainers for the expanding Iraqi military is a natural step." He added, however, that the outcome "depends on the quality of those the contractors recruit.
We are currently spending $12 billion a month to have our boys and girls over there. Now we are going to hire some more contractors (currently more contractors than troops in Iraq). Why don't we just bring our troops home and have the contractors fight the war. The transfer of wealth would continue to Bushco and we wouldn't lose any of our armed forces.
I guess the story really confirms we are not qualified to do anything, even though we have been supposedly training Iraqi troops for the past 4 years.
no
no-no
no-no-no-no
no-no-no-no-no
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mEMfxFEaXw
And yes, John, lots of us women out here will not tolerate unethical behavior in our personal and professional lives. It has nothing whatsoever to do with traditional male dominated religion, either. We just refuse to play guilty when we're not.
http://prorev.com/2007/12/hillary-clinton-heavy...
In light of the current focus on Rev. Wright I think the media should open this can of worms which Singing_Troll mentioned below.
There are a disturbing number of right wing nut jobs involved including Sanitarium as well as a number of Union Busting.
This is equally as disturbing.
Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.
I would like to hear from her about the Fellowships belief that the "Elite" win by the will of God. That is all we need another lying, religious nut job. We need to explore this.
It seems rather unpatriotic of them to go for the money instead of re-upping in the military...they're no different than the greedheads above them who are making billions on Iraq. Traitors for the gold...
Well, I have to give her credit though. because, unlike the bug Newt Gingrich, or 9/11 Rudy Giuliani and some of the other right-wing wackos that spout their phony "family values" crap, Hilliary and Bill are still together (and I bet a little side action on the part of Bill somewhere)
Having said that, I think Singing Troll has a good point. No one has ever really discussed her affiliations with a conservative worship group.
Monica wasn't exactly the first, or likely the last, time Hillary's......um,...faith had been tested.
Bush Bites: you are correct about that. but I think that Monica is always the first that comes to mind because of the yuckiness of it on so many levels: her age, her job as an intern, the trysts in the Oval Office----the LIES upon LIES!
And what was he?
And besides, he's the best beard a closet-case could hope for. Talk about convenience.
Of course, Bill juggles women the way he does politics.
When they did come up in the 90's, Democrats (Clinton apologists) screamed and yelled that they were lies, lies lies.
Are the stories about Bill true? Was he a sexual predator?
Or false?
Which is it?
pander meander.
Lies about Bosnia and Ireland - Pinnochio
Drinking beer and downing shots - Pandering drunk
Talking about shooting and guns - Annie Oakley
Endorsing McCain over Obama - Disloyal colleague
Bringing the Democrats down - Spoiler
Voting on Iraq, and talking about
obliterating Iran - War monger with no judgment (like Bush).
Ridiculing and mocking Obama - Petty and mean
Dividing the Democratic party - Divisive and deadly
Claiming to win the popular vote
which "includes" Michigan and Florida - Desperate and In denial.
Throwing the kitchen and toilet sink at Obama - Shameless and a follower of Karl Rove.
All this, and she has the highest negatives among all the candidates.
Is this the nominee we really want to have?
Drinking beer and downing shots - Pandering drunk
Talking about shooting and guns - Annie Oakley
Endorsing McCain over Obama - Disloyal colleague
Bringing the Democrats down - Spoiler
Voting on Iraq, and talking about
obliterating Iran - War monger with no judgment (like Bush).
Ridiculing and mocking Obama - Petty and mean"
--sage24
She, even more than McCain, personifies the evil entity the government has become.
We all know the depths of McCain's depravity and have for some time.
But HILLARY! Watching the contortions, her Pavlovian goosestep to all things John McCain and the Fascist agenda, her obfuscations, pettiness, vindictiveness, sense of entitlement, sheer psychotic interpretations of Obama the man...I could go on forever but we all know the score.
We are witnessing the self-immolation of a Goldwater Girl turned Democratic pretender. Her subconscious pushing her, pushing, pushing her to pour more gasoline over her head while waving around her blowtorch of flammable venom, defying the death of her candidacy yet actively hastening her future destruction.
In watching her, we are watching the last throes of Neoconism itself. She is no parody, she is the real deal.
CLINTON CAMP CONSIDERING USING NUCLEAR OPTIONS TO OVERTAKE OBAMA IN THE DELEGATE COUNT.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/04/clinto...
Betcha a lot of people will be seriously pissed if they try it.
-- Prezzildent Dispondent
I always see her as "Fat Bastard"
I have no idea why.
Most religions have the idea of forgiveness as a basic tenet. If someone does harm to you, physical, mental or emotional, you are supposed to try and forgive that person. I understand that Sen. Clinton considers herself a Christian; if so, this would simply be an example of her trying to do as her religion asks its practioners to do - practice fogiveness. It is not that easy to do.
Sen. Obama can stay in his church if he so desires, the decision is his. If he is worried about what people will say he can tell them that he is a firm believer in the separation of church and state. Or he can demonstrate his priorities by resigning from his church to prevent any harm to his campaign.
Works both ways for me.
She is indeed making a spectacle of herself, and it ain't pretty.
I still can't understand how so many people in the Democratic party are
willing to accept this behavior, which everyone, even around the world, has
seen, and been disgusted. People are even willing to overlook her Iraq vote, and accept her rather reckless, war mongering, remark about obliterating
Iran...isn't this the same reason they are turned off by Bush?
Older and Wiser
Thanks, O&W.
I think Hillary knows Obama won't go there, so she thinks she is free to make up shit to polish her crown. But the crown is brown, Hillary.
Clinton: I'm not listening to economists on gas tax holiday
INDIANAPOLIS, Indiana (CNN) — In the face of criticism from a slate of economists who say her gas tax holiday plan would be ineffective or even harmful, Hillary Clinton said she wasn’t taking stock of their opinions and emphasized that this was a short-term fix that would primarily benefit long-distance drivers.
“I’m not going to put my lot in with economists,” Clinton told George Stephanopolous on ABC’s ‘This Week’ after he asked her to name a single economist supporting her plan.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/04...
Regarding nuclear options -- it's going to happen. DNC chairman Dean said so yesterday:
http://patterico.com/2008/05/03/howard-dean-flo...
And, dougstamate, may I quote in part from Nobel prize winner Steven Weinberg: " . . . for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Siegelman whistleblower run off road, home caught fire
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/4/10372/17...
Another irony is that while she feels controlled by people and events, she herself is overly controlling. She is afraid of allowing other people to be who they are and of allowing events to happen naturally. An expert in knowing best how things should turn out and how people should behave, the codependent person tries to control others through threats, coercion, advice giving, helplessness, guilt, manipulation, or domination."
I was simply pointing out that there's clearly a bias in how Obama is viewed in relation to religion. I agree with you. Obama can go to any church he wants.
One thing that nobody has addressed is the addition of 76 more super delegates. I mentioned this last night. Why add more super delegates? What is the reasoning behind this. So the total of super delegates goes up another 76.
"She kept her husband, while a lot of women her age are alone".
But Hillary gets taken to hell...go figure!
(Didn't she once spit and hiss about not being 'one of those stand by your man kind of women who stays home and bakes cookies all day'...)
Think we'll see Doctor James Dobson's endorsement any time soon?
I don't think Hillary can pass in evangelical-ville any better than McHagee can.
(Didn't she once spit and hiss about not being 'one of those stand by your man kind of women who stays home and bakes cookies all day'...)
Think we'll see Doctor James Dobson's endorsement any time soon?
I don't think Hillary can pass in evangelical-ville any better than McHagee can."
LOL. Great points.
"Everyone assumed this desperate failure of a candidate would do this. The problem is this RICO like group pushing the orgnaized theft of the nomination cannot and will not get past the credentials committee"
But Howard Dean has already said the delegations will be seated.
I actually think it's better to seat them, and have Obama still prevail -- it makes him more valid.
Otherwise, Hillary Clinton supporters will claim that Obama only got the nomination by leaving out two important states.
Anyway, she's not a woman that I admire when it comes to politics, career, OR relationships.
On the other hand, Elizabeth Edwards is my hero.
She is indeed making a spectacle of herself, and it ain't pretty.
I still can't understand how so many people in the Democratic party are
willing to accept this behavior, which everyone, even around the world, has
seen, and been disgusted. People are even willing to overlook her Iraq vote, and accept her rather reckless, war mongering, remark about obliterating
Iran...isn't this the same reason they are turned off by Bush?"
EXACTLY! Well said!
We are witnessing the self-immolation of a Goldwater Girl turned Democratic pretender. Her subconscious pushing her, pushing, pushing her to pour more gasoline over her head while waving around her blowtorch of flammable venom, defying the death of her candidacy yet actively hastening her future destruction.
In watching her, we are watching the last throes of Neoconism itself. She is no parody, she is the real deal."
Wow! I think you've really hit the nail on the head here with extreme eloquence!
I look forward to reading more from you! Thanks!
"Appropriate names for Hillary Rodham Clinton.
Lies about Bosnia and Ireland - Pinnochio
Drinking beer and downing shots - Pandering drunk
Talking about shooting and guns - Annie Oakley
Endorsing McCain over Obama - Disloyal colleague
Bringing the Democrats down - Spoiler
Voting on Iraq, and talking about
obliterating Iran - War monger with no judgment (like Bush).
Ridiculing and mocking Obama - Petty and mean
Dividing the Democratic party - Divisive and deadly
Claiming to win the popular vote
which "includes" Michigan and Florida - Desperate and In denial.
Throwing the kitchen and toilet sink at Obama - Shameless and a follower of Karl Rove.
All this, and she has the highest negatives among all the candidates.
Is this the nominee we really want to have?"
Yes, I agree with you.
Right!
I have never doubted that Hillary Clinton loves her husband passionately. Maybe I'm wrong, but what I see is someone who cares too much to let go. Maybe she's crazy. Maybe I'm crazy. Maybe fidelity is the absolute #1 value for everyone but us. But I've seen too many relationships that have survived this very challenge to condemn her or judge her. And frankly, I cannot imagine being strong enough to do this in front of the world, to have the whole world know about it (seriously-- I didn't even tell my parents what was going on), and to have everyone judging you for doing whatever you did. I don't know that I could have behaved as sensibly and graciously as she did. And your judgement of her, to my view, seems to exhibit a rather shallow understanding of the complexity of human nature and of love. But I think you really do understand that, deep down. Open your heart. You don't have to like either Clinton to understand how there is no right answer when this happens to you-- there's only the answer that is right in this very particular situation. And the complex emotions and motives involved kind of defy consistency (like I've forgiven my husband, but that expletive-deleted adulteress? Well, I think rather badly of her, and I won't use any of the terms I would like to use, as I've given up swearing). The human heart really is too complex to be consistent-- and it gets worse, worse, worse, when it's played out in public, when your DAUGHTER is asked about it, when you can't escape it.
But yeah, I think the experience has made me a better person, and it's probably made Sen Clinton a better person too. Forgiveness never makes you a worse person, does it?
Senator Obama has repeatedly been asking all of us to focus in the issues. Would that the powers that be at Americablog would head that call.
ericgoldman, if Hillary lives by the sword she should be prepared to die by the sword. since she has participated in the disproportionate skewering of Obama via Wright, i hope she's prepared to take that same medicine when the GOPers pour her up a nice, big spoonful.