What Jonathan is forgetting is that on several occasions Obama - not McCain - made statements about being a 'fierce advocate' for LGBT rights, said that it was ridiculous that in 2008 it we are kicking Arab speakers out of the military for being gay, etc.
So holding his 'feet to the fire' is appropriate. Congress didn't promise anything. Obama did.
The comparison that the apologists such as Jonathan often use (would McCain be better?) is a false dichotomy: McCain never promised us anything so why should Obama's record on our civil rights ever result in bringing McCain into the debate?
It's as if I bought a car - say a VW - and it develops a problem. I take it back to the dealer to get fixed and they defensively respond 'so you think it would have been any better if you bought a Ford?'
Idiotic logic.
RitornaVincitor
· 6 months ago
Yesterday I received an e-mail invitation to make a monetary donation to Team Obama. I replied that I would make no donations until Obama stops breaking his promises to the gay community.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 6 months ago
At the White House buffet for the A-Gays:
Half-baked ham with Hush, Puppies!
Outflanked steak with bitter greens and charred onion.
Don't Ask, Don't Tell Mystery Meat cassoulet.
Beaten egg drop soup from Pho Que.
Twice-pounded chicken paillard with whipped potato garnish.
Twice-burned bitter chocolate creme brulee.
Raw toll-house cookie dough gelato.
Whiskey sours and sour green appletinis at the cash bar.
gaylib
· 6 months ago
...and from Germany, the spoiled brats.
terrya
· 6 months ago
What bullshit. The pressure from this community on this White House must continue.
Barack Obama himself said that he was a "fierce advocate" for us. We didn't put those words in his mouth. And he must deliver on that promise. Repeal of DADT, for instance, MUST be forcefully driven by the Commander-in-Chief. I've called my Congresswoman and Senators about this. But I don't have the same clout as the White House has on Congress. And I sure as fuck can't tell the Pentagon what to do. But the Commander-in-Chief has that authority.
Maybe this is a wrong analogy or comparison or maybe it isn't relevant. But I think that the passage of Prop 8 changed everything in this community. The first time, ever, that a constitutional amendment TAKES AWAY the rights of a group of people that they were legally given. I think this community was energized by the viciousness of this and they are still pissed. And they look at the silence, first the inaction, then the hostility towards us with the DOMA brief and this community won't take bullshit anymore. Some dinner is just going to mollify people like Joe Solomonese. It's not going to do a fucking thing for my right to marry my boyfriend. Or to stop good people like Daniel Choi for being discharged from the military simply because he's gay.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
I think new leadership is called for, it's time for a bloody putsch.
These people are dinosaurs mired in the tar of their own lick spittle subservience.
Chris From Maine
· 6 months ago
Obama and the dems know the gay community wont leave, because where else could you go? The Republican party?
Maybe its time for a true progressive party, one that embraces full and equal gay rights as one of its main issues. Just a thought.
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
Or maybe it's time to force primary challenges within the Democratic Party by backing Progressive candidates, over establishment candidates.
This would be an especially good strategy to pursue in Democratic strongholds, where the electorate is not especially Conservative. I do understand that, in some regions, we have to hold our noses and go with the blue dogs.
Scott
· 6 months ago
Or you can stay neutral until either side gets the balls to actually do something.
lileasy
· 6 months ago
I visited the Green Party website this AM. Not at all up-to-date and generally pretty lame. It certainly didn't inspire me with any confidence that this might be a party ready to take on the challenge of representing all the Americans who are being left behind by the GOP and Dems.
rkwright
· 6 months ago
Hey, it isn't as if the Party's have not changed ideology in the past. You have to remember that it was the Republican party that freed the slaves, and it used to be the DixieCrats that were the racist politicians. If the republican party starts changing it's stance and pushes for Marriage Equality and actually is the impetus for creating it, then I will join them without hesitation, BUT NOT BEFORE IT'S PASSED. I will reward whichever party secures my equality, and the rest be damned.
ynow
· 6 months ago
Sorry John. Couldn't agree more with the substance of your posts on DOMA and DADT, but you're the wrong messenger. First you criticized Obama for making rev. McClurkinn part of his SC tour, but you quickly excused that. Then you mildly criticized his embrace of Rev. Caldwell, but quickly dismissed that. The same for his choice of Rev. Warren at the invocation. Why? Because he was YOUR candidate. You demonized Hillary clinton and held up Obama as the one, true candidate, while looking the other way at his association with homophobic bigots, ,because he was your guy.
NOW you want to be critical of him for throwing gays under the bus?
Sorry, John ..... you're one of the guys who put him in the charge of the bus.
gaylib
· 6 months ago
Irrelevant. The only thing that matters now is that we present ourselves as a unified community. The only gays that I can tell that are still defending the lack of action on the part of Obama and the Democrats are some of the politically and financially connected who want to maintain their link to the power structure, because that is more important to them than their civil rights. I don't care who supported who in the primary. Right now we all have to support each other.
ynow
· 6 months ago
It's not just "who supported who in the primaries".
It's the hypocritical outrage NOW.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 6 months ago
i'm quite sure that Gore would have been a better president that GWB. it's much less obvious that hillary would have been better than obama, although it's fascinating to think about.
be that as it may, there's no "hypocrisy" in having supported a pro-gay candidate who turns out to be a lemon. it would be hypocritical to pretend he's not a lemon.
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
I like Hillary, and actually, Hillary was our candidate - and we were one of the only top blogs to give her a fair shake (such as publishing her defense of why she voted for the war - her campaign asked us to publish it for them and we did) - but after she did things like cancel an interview with Joe and me after her staff found out that we were going to ask her about DOMA, our opinion of candidate Hillary started changing.
I like her again now, but let's not play games and pretend that anything would be different now.
As for Obama, yes, I'm a very bad man for watching someone screw up and then giving them another chance. Had we not given Obama several "other chances" we would be in no position to demand "no more excuse" and "no more talk" at this point - people would be saying, hey he screwed up, let him explain himself and try again. So, sorry, but I'm not going to apologize for giving him the chance to prove himself, after your candidate freaked out over a gay question.
The election is over. Get over it. The community needs to come together now.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
I still haven't been able to get anyone to explain what Hillary Clinton meant during the campaign when she called Obama a "San Francisco Democrat" to get more votes? That is certainly "code" for something...
rduke
· 6 months ago
And oh how wrong she was.
ynow
· 6 months ago
Not sure, I hadn't seen that quote. You'd have to post the quote in context. Usually refers to a very liberal Democrat, unless it's in the context of a discussion about gays/gay rights.
ynow
· 6 months ago
You used to like Hillary, now you like her again? Irrelevant. My point was that you demonized her during the primary campaign and overlooked MANY things that should have given you pause about Obama because he was your guy. It goes far beyond "watching someone screw up and then giving them another chance".
BTW - Hillary wasn't "my candidate", and even IF it's true that she canceled the interview to duck a question about DOMA, that in no way excuses your horrible treatment of her and your looking-the-other-way-no-matter-what treatment of Obama. "Let's not play games and pretend anything would be different now"? Really? You KNOW that Hillary wouldn't have issued an executive order stopping the enforcement of DADT? You KNOW that she would've had her DOJ file a homophobic brief that could have been written by Jerry Falwell?
NOW you have these powers of prescience?
But thanks for the newsflash about the election being over.
Get over it? Maybe.
But certainly not because you're telling me to.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
Yeah, well I was one of the snipers in Bosnia trying to poke holes in Hillary's pantsuit.
Beat that.
ynow
· 6 months ago
Really?
You weren't the guy on the imaginary cover of Life Magazine that gave rise to 0bama's "racial epiphany"?
Let's see ...... would I rather a candidate exaggerate about a danger they faced in Bosnia, or lie about opposing FISA and compare gays to pedophiles and incest?
Wow, ........ just like Staples.
That was EASY.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
I'm sorry, unless you have some sort of crystal ball you have no idea what a Clinton would do regarding gay rights.. oh wait, we have this time machine called the internet.. what was happening right around 1993...
ynow
· 6 months ago
What "a" Clinton would do? Strange, ..... since the candidate on the ballot was Hillary Clinton, not Bill. Conflating the two to try to rationalize a reason to make yourself feel better?
Yeah, ......
BTW - I never said Hillary would be a better candidate. Simply that your tired, old sniper line could be just as easily applied to Obama, ...
... for "exaggerations" re: policy that are much more relevant (i.e. FISA, DADT, renditions, etc.)
psychodrew
· 6 months ago
I was a diehard Hillary Clintonista, but the primary debate is long over. We have no way of knowing if Hillary would have taken a different approach.
gaylib
· 6 months ago
I guess Capehart was given the same talking points as Kerry Eleveld at The Advocate. Her commentary a couple of days back basically said the same thing. That gay people are being unreasonable for not accepting the "olive branch" being offered. As if pre-existing benefits that affect a tiny portion of the gay population was an "historic step" in our civil rights movement (as President Obama insultingly claimed). And as if that made up for the disgusting DOJ DOMA brief. They are doing to their own community what the population at large has always tried to do to us, shame us into silence. It is bad enough that we've had to deal with the homophobic populace at large use accusations of pedophilia and perversion to shove us back into the closet, but to have so called advocates for our community do it is unforgivable. We need new leaders. People like Joe Solmonese and the HRC no longer function as an advocate for our community to those in power. It is now the other way around. Gay organizations and media such as the Advocate are now advocating the positions of the Obama administration and the DNC to their own comunity. For them to chastise the gay community for our very reasonable and justified anger is outrageous.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
They'll just tell you you're being shrill and that you're selfish for not thinking of all the other way more important things facing the nation.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 6 months ago
Johnny's got a great wardrobe and a de luxe Dupont Circle pad. He's not gonna rock any boat to put any of that in jeopardy.
erickh
· 6 months ago
I've recently unsubscribed from mybarackobama.com and told them why. A day or two ago I was invited by VP Biden to a DNC fundraiser in Boston. I promptly unsubscribed and told them why. In telling off the DNC, I found myself channeling Andrew Sullivan of all people. Believe me, it came as quite a shock.
While I am no longer in Barney Franks district, I used to be, and I've supported him and voted for him in the past. And when I say past, I mean when they weren't easy victories, they were victories in the 80s. Sorry, but I can't believe that he didn't read the brief the moment it came out. The man went to Harvard Law School.
I suspect a chunk of the stimulus package will be heading to his district in the not to distant future.
I don't understand Jonathan. It's not the president's inaction that bothers me, I would be happy with inaction. As John said, it's what he's actually doing.
lileasy
· 6 months ago
Does anyone honestly believe Barney did not read the brief when it was issued?
Moncusa
· 6 months ago
Barney Frank is dishonest, to put it mildly. He's the type who really needs a Bill O'Reilly (whether you love him or hate him) who recognizes what he is and to pin him down and not allow him to try to talk his way out of his guilt. Gay men have to start being an O'Reilly with Barney Frank.
travelingmanrick
· 6 months ago
I read that tripe yesterday at the Post and almost spit my coffee out. What a weasel. The dude needs to grow a pair and realize that no we did not win a victory. A victory would have been a stop loss measure regarding DADT, a victory would have been giving all LGBT's that are federal employees the same rights they are giving straights by executive order and not some memo that is not worth the paper it is written on.
Indigo
· 6 months ago
There is nothing more important facing the nation than equal rights for all citizens. Why is that a topic of quibble among the Quislings?
psychodrew
· 6 months ago
I'm tired of being told that my anger is unreasonable and that I should be satisfied with being tolerated. The gay elite may be ga-ga for Obama and flattered by an invitation to be in the same room as the vice-president, but those of us in the real world are more concerned about getting our problems solved than having their egos massaged.
Jack J.
· 6 months ago
You guys are typical "fair weather" friends of this administration, not willing to trust Obama enough to keep his promises to us and quick to grab the pitchforks and torches...all in less that 6 months.
Don't donate, that's fine. Cut off your noses to spite your faces like a bratty kid.
Cripple the DNC so that it can't fight the GOP and the GOP will keep on raising money to fight us. And THEY ARE raising money.
Don't you morons get that?
Liam
· 6 months ago
"You guys..."
Uh huh.
"Fair weather friends" of Obama? I busted my ass for that man. I donated more money than I have EVER donated to a candidate in my life. I canvassed neighborhoods in a neighboring state THREE TIMES IN ONE YEAR. I phone banked, attended rallys, and persuaded my own conservative family members to support him.
Once elected, Obama back pedelled on every promise. He wasn't a "fierce advocate" HE WAS "FAIR WEATHER." He has allowed 200+ service men and women to be discharged for being gay. Heros with needed expertise have been discharged while white supremecists and gang members have been recruited. That is appalling. Especially during a time of war.
And then the DoJ brief comparing the legal status of my 11 year relationship to one of incest or pedophilia.
I will no longer give money to these luke-warm democrats. They have time to write funny speeches for award ceremonies. They have time to attend another photo shoot with the latest winning team and to compare their charts. They have time to attend Broadway shows with romantic dinners afterwards, but are "too busy" to protect me and my family from second class pergatory.
Ask Rick Warren and Donnie McCloset and JACK J. for support, Democrats. But don't expect any support from me or my family until your actions meet your eloquent words.
"Fair Weather Friend?"
Kiss my gay ass.
SoLeftImRight
· 6 months ago
I'm afriad you are the fucking moron. There is nothing "fair weather" about this at all. It's called holding your leaders accountable, which most of the country has failed to do for far too long. Who is the "fair weather" friend in this? It's Obama. He's not special, he's just a politician. No one would be all up in arms if the administration hadn't gone to extra lengths to bitch slap us with that DOMA brief -- which was neither necessary or required -- or not just put on temporary hold his campaign promises, but make intentional moves to fail to live up to them (and that extends to defending Bush extremism in the courts as well).
No one in their right mind would prefer a McCain presidency. It's irrelevant, isn't it? Didn't happen. It is, was and will continue to be the time for intelligent activism. The one point I will agree with from the article is that there absolutely needs to be an aggressive effort to deal with the legislative side of these issues. The one and only thing the Congress cares about is money, so it is such a surprise that they actually sit up and notice when you close the checkbooks.
gaylib
· 6 months ago
You're absolutely right. This isn't just about Obama. This is about the DNC and a pattern of abuse and disrespect that has gone on for far too long now. They have become used to a relationship where it's all take, take, take, and no give. For too long we have settled for that relationship and they've gotten used to it. Of course they're gonna be grumpy when we finally turn off the tap of our support. they're used to us always rolling over and playing dead. Before they could get away with it by pointing to the fact that they just didn't have the numbers. And in a lot of individual cases, they were being sincere. The difference now, is that contrary to what they're saying, there will never be a better time to legislatively codify our civil rights. Democrats have not had a majority this large with such a popular president in decades. If the time isn't right now, when will it ever be?
Vince in Cedar Rapids
· 6 months ago
Obama has not apologized for the language of the brief nor made any kind of statement in disagreement with its language, has the power to stop-loss DADT and hasn't, could have scheduled at least one meeting with Pelosi and Reid regarding a tentative plan to meet his promises and did not, and his administration outright rebuffed multiple past attempts from gay community leaders to meet up and work things out more privately before any of this became news. --------------------------------------------------------- Congress has said nothing for us, done nothing for us, and even admitted they have no plans to do anything for us. --------------------------------------------------------- People who are so-called friends and allies of the gay community have been telling us to sit down and shut up and be glad we have a seat on the bus at all, even if that seat happens to be in front of the wheels. The comments from the "I am your friend but am tired of hearing about this issue" people in this blog have amazed me. YOU try living as "less-than" for your entire life. --------------------------------------------------------- We are tired. We are tired of being lied to, being told to wait, and being made empty and false promises. Gay people are still fired from their jobs simply for being gay. Gay people are barred from adopting in many states. Gay people are not allowed to be married in 44 states. Gay partners are not allowed to visit their partners on their death bed in many states. Gay people who serve honorably are still kicked out of the military every single day. Gay people are still beaten and killed because they happen to be gay. Gay people are not allowed to jointly file their federal taxes. When the executive and legislative branch is controlled by Democrats and they do absolutely NOTHING within their power to help us, yes, we are going to stop giving them money and no, we are not going to stop lighting a fire under their a$$ to live up to their promises or move aside so someone who actually does care can be elected. So yes, many of us are okay with hurting the DNC a little bit.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
EXACTLY AND AMEN!
Liam
· 6 months ago
EXACTLY!!!
Hey Democrats! Can you hear us now?!?
No gay rights? NO GAY MONEY!!
timncguy
· 6 months ago
it is you, Obama , the dems and the DNC who are the "fair weather" friends and who are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
If you feel we could cost the dems the election, then why isn't one of your options to EARN our support?
Why do you, and all those I mentioned above act like you would rather lose the next election than to take ACTION that would earn our support?
Why do you expect US to save you from repug rule, when clearly you and those I mentioned have to power to save yourself by EARNING our support.
What we are expecting would be much less excpet for the DOJ DOMA brief.
Now, get this list done, and you would earn our support:
1. Obama, apologize for the DOJ Brief 2. Obama, sign an executive stop loss order suspending DADT 3. Congress, present your plan (with timelines) for repeal of DADT and DOMA and for the passage of ENDA and Hate Crimes legislation.
3 easy steps. No one is demanding anything immediate except for the apology and stop loss order. Both are EASY to do and neither would cost any political capital or cause a backlash.
But, like I said. It appears as though the dems would prefer to suffer ANYTHIING, rather than to do what we have asked for. They are going OUT OF THEIR way to find "alternate" crumbs to try to appease us when they KNOW what they need to do and have the power to do it.
citizen spot
· 6 months ago
They have the power to do it, but not the will. We need to support progressive democrats in democratic primaries, and then push for campaign finance reform to stop the corporate interests from "buying" candidates through campaign contributions.
mooresart
· 6 months ago
Look to yourself Jack J. You refer to us as bratty kids then call us morons which is exactly what a bratty kid would do. You see? You're no more aware of your own hypocrisy than Obama is. Get it? Unlike Bush supporters most of us progressives think that loyalty is earned. Get it? I didn't think so...
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
"Fair weather friends" don't door knock in Oklahoma and almost get into verbal and even physical altercations with racist Democrats who called Obama the N-word.
If ANYONE is a "Fair weather friend" it is the Obama Administration. We aren't going to be taken advantage of and compromised over again. We aren't going to wait as if this were the beginning of the Clinton Administration. Someone horribly miscalculated in the Obama Admin if they think we will.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
Fairweather friends? LOL
Do friends fuck you over and attack you?
Do friends compare you to pedophiles and your relationships to incest?
The DNC won't be crippled IF THEY ADHERE TO THE PROMISES THEY MADE IN THE CAMPAIGN.
So far, they've done the opposite and have gone out of their way to attack us.
They cripple themselves with their own stupidity.
How dimwitted do you have to be to have that completely escape your notice?
gaylib
· 6 months ago
we're fair weather friends???? What about those that promise us the moon and the stars when they want our money and our votes only to turn around and sell us down the river when they don't need us anymore? What's moronic is to keep forgiving that kind of behavior over and over again and each time expect a more positive result. We refuse to continue to be indentured servants who are promised a pay-off for our work at some nebulous time in the future. This time we get paid up front, or we go on strike. You get it now?
mikeyDe
· 6 months ago
Withholding donations to the DNC is purely symbolic. They have other reliable sources: the banking industry, the so-called health industry, the energy industry, and the way things seem to be going, the military industrial complex.
mooresart
· 6 months ago
Withholding donations is about personal integrity not about who else has the money to fund the DNC...or symbolism...
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
No, its not. They don't want to lose the gay ATM. They don't want to lose our community as activists, either.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
Bullshit... we are tired of being taken for granted and spat upon by people who are supposed to be our allies. It ain't the Clinton years and we aren't going to just sit down and shut up when we get stabbed in the back. It doesn't work that way. Scorched earth? Fine by me. I'm sick to death of WAITING for my civil rights for a more "convenient time." We are going to get our rights one way or another... and I'm not going to give credit, time or money when our allies pretend like we haven't evolved twenty years. The Obama Admin knows what they need to do to make this right...
Steve_in_CNJ
· 6 months ago
do you get that we are not going to shut up? "you guys" need to start factoring that into everything you do from now on.
as Liam suggested below, try replacing us with the religious right if you start missing our support.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
joeluther :
"I guess I am having a hard time with the word traitor."
timncguy :
"would the term asshole for them make you less uncomfortable?"
joeluther :
You know I like that word better :) . Thank you for expressing how you feel about this issue, it helps me understand how people are feeling about it.
(Copied and moved up because of word wrapping to make more legible)
Scott
· 6 months ago
This is the "change" I've been waiting for!
Gotta send a message to both democrats and the A-list gays that we average gays won't be their fools to steal from anymore.
All this time, average gays have been paying for these wild-haired freaks to attend posh little parties and stuff like that - and that's pretty much it. Attention whores having a good time on everyone else's wallet, and dicking off. It's just like Prop 8 - only fools would believe it was bungled "by mistake". Eccentric spending, yes - but not by mistake.
BR_Parkway
· 6 months ago
Since when did the 60 votes in the Senate become the new standard to pass any legislation?
citizen spot
· 6 months ago
Since Harry Reid let the Rebulicans walk all over him, instead of making them actually take the podium and filibuster. Trying to achieve a filibuster proof senate also emboldens conservative democratic senators to try and make pissy power grabs by withholding their support on major progressive issues. The Dems could change the filibuster threshold lower, through parlimentary tactics, but they won't, because they prefer the status quo.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
We can't keep blaming just one person. Yes, its Harry Reid but the entire Democratic Party needs to grow some balls and MOVE LEFT. People need to be threatened with the whole "lead or get out of the way" thread and make it happen when they don't.
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
It's the latest newest ever-moving goal post. Anyone really think the Dems are going to set us free when Franken gets seated?
TrueBleuCA
· 6 months ago
Constitutional guarantees of equality are and have always been there, pure and simple, black and white. What we don't have is the political backbone to enforce the equality provisions already on the books. Just because something has been denied throughout history does not mean it doesn't exist. Our mistake in the GLBT community is that for too long we have let the opposition frame the argument that new laws and new rights are being created by judicial activism. When in fact what has happened in recent years through the courts was not the creation of new law, but an attempt to finally put a stop to the discrimination and segregation which has been allowed to operate in spite of the law.
BraydenWicker
· 6 months ago
It is a major mistake to bite the hand that feeds. Just eat the crumbs and wait your turn. Health Care reform is a more important issue right now. Obama can't rule by fiat. This rancor should be directed towards Congress.
Liam
· 6 months ago
"Health Care reform is a more important issue right now..."
Excuse my rancor but,...FUCK YOU and your health care.
I am tired of people telling me that there are more important issues than the civil rights of me and my family.
Right now my family is not legal in many states. So don't lecture me about my rancor.
Right now the legal status of my family is being compared to incest and child rape.
Besides, right now the Democratic Party is folding under the pressure of the Health Insurance Lobby. Just as they are folding on issues pertaining to the LGBT population.
And who the hell are you to assume that my rancor has not been directed at EVERY ONE OF MY REPRESENTATIVES?
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
Nicely put.
BraydenWicker
· 6 months ago
Health Care would benefit the LGBT population more than repealing DOMA. DOMA will take years to be repealed while Health Care reform is something that is currently being debated in Congress.
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
The problem is not just DOMA, it is every glbt issue of consequence.
A perfect example, DADT. The only NATO countries not to integrate gays are the U.S. and Turkey. The global model proving that it does not destroy military cohesion undercuts the only argument against it. Yet Obama's DOJ filed a brief to the Supreme Court saying that it was a risk to military cohesion.
In polling, even Conservatives think it needs to go.
And yet, Obama cannot even issue a stop-loss order to prevent military discharges while the issue is being reviewed. In fact, he hasn't even begun to review it!
Isn't our military short-handed? Where is Obama even on this? A wrong-headed policy that puts a stigma on every gay American is defended by the man.
As for your assertion that health care would benefit more people.
I disagree.
Civil rights would benefit the glbt community more, in my opinion. Unless you think that it is acceptable for gays not to have visitation rights for their spouse, or protection when their partner dies, or no federal benefits despite paying equally into the system, and so forth...
As for health care, have you seen the news? The health care lobby is so entrenched in government, even among the Democrats, that it looks like any upcoming change will be so watered down as to be virtually toothless.
I am not suggesting Obama end DOMA right this minute, but he has taken no steps on any glbt issue that matters. And he has allowed his DOJ to use insuting arguments to justify those discriminatory policies.
No other minority group would just put up with this silently.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
Go get 'EM.
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
To quote a line from one of my favorite musicals: "Please sir, can I have some more?"
NotTimothyGeithner
· 6 months ago
Bite the hand that feeds? This is a democracy. The President works for us not the other way.
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
And more importantly, the hand promised a feast and it's delivering crumbs. If and when feeding time actually comes around, then we'll talk.
terrya
· 6 months ago
The President of the United States has a bully pulpit. He or she has a great deal of influence on issues vital to Americans. And anytime a "fierce advocate" for a group of people has that bully pulpit, I expect him or her to use it to help deliver the promises made to a community.
lileasy
· 6 months ago
More important to whom? You set your priorities and I will set mine, thanks.
ChrisSF
· 6 months ago
Congress isn't responsible for that horrific DOJ brief, which is the match that lit this fire. And Obama hasn't done one thing to fix it. Instead, he has defended it over and over again and trotted out Barney to help him defend it. They just don't get that they need to withdraw that POS and file something that people can stomach.
rkwright
· 6 months ago
Sorry Brayden,
Last time I looked it was OUR hand doing the feeding. And the DNC and Obama had NO PROBLEM biting. But now that our HAND is saying we will no longer FEED them from the trough of the GAYTM we finally see them waking up to the fact that we will be silent no longer. So please, what was your argument again?
Silence = Death was not just a slogan in the eighties.
BraydenWicker
· 6 months ago
My argument is that it is better to work diplomatically with elected officials since they are ones who will handout the rights. Sure Obama can ignore DOMA and DADT but that victory would set off a backlash just like it did in 1993.
citizen spot
· 6 months ago
"...hand out the rights"? More like undo the cultural repression of constitutionally existing rights. I agree that if DOMA and DADT are ignored, there will be a backlash.
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
I do not dispute that we should not have a faction working diplomatically, but the glbt leadership has been toothless for a long, long time.
It is extremely important that there be a component to the glbt community that keeps up the passion on issues that matter to us. Just as ACT UP was the most important voice in waking up America to AIDS.
This Obama supporter is rather amazed at the apparent back-of-the-hand we have been given.
This is not 1993, it is 2009. The rest of the Western world has left the U.S. in the dust on most social issues, especially glbt civil rights.
Why?
Because American politicians, fueled by a right-wing media, have a false notion that pandering to religious conservatives is the only way to gather consensus.
It is a flawed model.
Times and attitudes have changed radically.
If we can't proceed on glbt issues now, then we are in a pathetic state of affairs.
BraydenWicker
· 6 months ago
Unfortunately we live in a center-right country right now. The truth is you have to wait for the older generation to die off to move forward nationally on GLBT rights. But in the meantime you can fight for rights at the state and local level. Obama cannot lead this fight for you.
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
Brayden, you and I have a completely different world view.
America is a center-right country? No it's not. That, however, is what the mass media leads you to believe.
You should visit Media Matters' blog and see all the ways that the media shapes the dialogue that way.
There is no demonstable proof that America is a center-right nation. If it were, Barack Obama would not have been elected and Democrats would not have the majorities they currently enjoy.
The world has radically changed. America is one of the last Western nations to move forward on glbt issues. There is now a global model we can look to. We have seen it work elsewhere. This is hardly a social experiment. It is not a matter of 'if' we get our rights, but how soon.
Additionally, Proposition 8 started inspiring a new activism.
I do not disagree that we fight on a state and local level. I am all in favor of propping up Progressive candidates in our primaries.
But to ask us to not seek to have President Obama follow through on his promises...you forget, Brayden...he made them to us while campaigning...is abdicating our responsibility.
I do not mean to be disrespectful, but it just seems you're asking for appeasement.
My apologies if I am wrong. But, if I am not, that is not a strategy that works for me.
Being silent protestors in the 60s did not jumpstart the glbt civil rights movement, Stonewall did.
It was Act UP that kept the issue of AIDS in everyone's face.
In this case, silence may not equal death, but is would definitely equal codifying second class status.
rduke
· 6 months ago
Sickening. I'll stop speaking out against betrayal when I have the same rights as other Americans. The Democrats have used and abused the gay community for decades!
DaveVentura
· 6 months ago
This is part of healthcare reform. The brief specifically said denying benefits was a good thing, so if healthcare reform is more important that should mean rejecting the brief's arguments and instead offering equal benefits for all.
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
Hi John. I am glad you saw fit to post this today. As I wrote last night, as disturbing as the piece was, comments from some of the right-wingers posting were downright scary.
In an interview with Amy Goodman, for Democracy Now, the former Army Secretary under Carter, Clifford Alexander, has come out strongly in favor of lifting the discriminatory policy.
Among other things, former Secretary Alexander states:
"The policy is an absurdity and borderline on being an obscenity. What it does is cause people to ask of themselves that they lie to themselves, that they pretend to be something that they are not. There is no empirical evidence that would indicate that it affects military cohesion. There is a lot of evidence to say that the biases of the past have been layered onto the United States Army."
I hate to sound like Barney Frank here, but the Congress bashing needs to be a little more focused. There are certainly more than enough votes in the House to repeal DADT, enact ENDA, and pass the hate crimes bill. DOMA is going to be far more problematic. But three out of four at least signals a willingness on the part of the House Democrats to address these issues.
In contrast, the Senate hasn't lifted a finger on any of this since the Democrats took over in 2007. They haven't even scheduled a vote on hate crimes, which is the least controversial of the "big four." And yes, the obstructionists in the United States Senate are emboldened by the mixed-messages coming out of the White House.
First, the administration compares homosexuality to pedophilia and beastiality. Then they have Obama come out against DOMA in a throwaway speech. On DADT, the administration says they have no intention of tackling it through a stop-loss order. Then they say they have "no plans" to lobby Congress on it. Then after being raked through the press, they claim they're "actively working" on it, but provide no proof that any work has taken place. The reason the president and his aides can't keep their story straight is because they're lying.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 6 months ago
not disagreeing at all, but for the record, there's no reference to bestiality in the brief, is there? it reached all the way to italy to find an instance of legal incest that they could use to show why gay couples shouldn't be allowed to cross borders. that's bad enough.
rkwright
· 6 months ago
I called DiFI and Boxer and both said they are waiting on leadership from the White House, then the White House says they are waiting on Leadership from Congress. And a round and a round we go.
sam2300
· 6 months ago
I agree completely. Last week, over on DailyKos, I was getting into it with a fellow Kossack about how "grateful" I should be. She kept asking "Do Obama's actions today constitute a step forward or a step backward in gay rights?" Finally, I said this: "If you were stranded in the desert and starving to death and someone came along who had an entire picnic basket full of food and offered you a crumb, would you consider that a step forward or a step backward for your physical well-being?"
I got no reply.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
and its been my experience when you offer an analogy they can't answer, they will leave the debate, throw their hands up and STILL believe they are right. People like that are absolutely unable to empathize and put themselves in our shoes as SECOND CLASS CITIZENS in our own country.
timncguy
· 6 months ago
ask them if they are willing to give up their rights and take what we have while they wait WITH US for the better time when all the important work is done and we finally have whirrled peas.
joeluther
· 6 months ago
I am so tired of all this whinny, it makes our community look like selfish children. Time to grow up, and act like adults and hold this admin's feet to the fire. This tearing down people does not move things forward. And yes small wins are better then no wins. Get on the phone and blast their emaill systems , and yea stop donating to the DNC. But this other crap has to stop if you want others to be on our side.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
Okay, I will act like an ADULT when I have equal rights and am not a second class citizen in my own country.
I'm tired of people spelling "whining" as "whinny." We aren't a bunch of horses.
joeluther
· 6 months ago
Sorry for my misspelling, I think we are going about it the wrong way.
Liam
· 6 months ago
My anger is justified.
Why should the legal status of my family change every time we cross a state line?
Why should I be calm when my love is compared to child rape?
Why should I donate to someone who only communicates to me through eloquent speeches and donation requests?
Why should I be happy that a few federal workers got some basic rights extended to them, but nothing that will help in the case of a medical emergency or death? There are laws on the books today that treat the family dog better than any LGBT partner could hope for.
Why should I pay the same taxes as everyone else, to fund a military that I am not allowed to join? A military that recruits white supremacists and gang members, but discharges Arabic linguists and medaled heros.
I am a fair minded person. I understand that things don't change over night. But I also have my limits. I expect hate and condescension from Reupublicans, BUT I WILL NOT ACCEPT IT FROM THE PARTY THAT I SUPPORT.
joeluther
· 6 months ago
Then run for office. That is what Harvey Milk did.
timncguy
· 6 months ago
that is always an option.
But, so is what we are advocating.
And, we are not advocating doing ONLY one thing. We can multi-task. We can stop donating and be active in multiple other ways at the same time. Theze things are NOT mutually exclusive.
joeluther
· 6 months ago
Start our own grass roots organization, and bring up issues that concern our community.
nicho
· 6 months ago
But the "other way" hasn't worked. We play nice and, as John says, they kick us in the balls. How often do they have to kick you in the balls before you try a different approach?
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting difference results.
joeluther
· 6 months ago
With our community so divided , I do not see how things will move forward. It is very sad that we can not come together as one voice, and put our egos to the side.
timncguy
· 6 months ago
i think a large percentage of the communiy is coming together with one voice and that voice is saying
NO GAY RIGHTS = NO GAY DOLLARS
And, that voice appears to be being heard and the politicians have been running aroung trying to placate us the past week.
Now, we just have to continue to tell them that it isn't necessary to go "digging up" trinkets to offer us. They KNOW hat we want. DO THAT.
Apologize for the DOMA brief Exec stop loss order on DADT tell us the ACTION PLAN with timelines for DADT and DOMA repeal and for Hate Crimes and ENDA legislation.
See how easy it would be to make us happy and re-EARN our support.
joeluther
· 6 months ago
I agree that with what you say, but the tearing down of people does not help move the issue forward. I am very angry with Obama, and it is good we, as a community are speaking out and taking the money away. Let them know we will not be taken advantage of, but the nasty name calling has to stop.
timncguy
· 6 months ago
I'm having trouble understand just what you do approve of and what you consider to be the "tearing down" of people.
Everyone here seems to be saying, no money, no votes until you deliver. And, you seem to agree with this.
So, can you provide an example of what you don't agree with?
What is your issue, that we are doing this in full public view of Obama's enemies? Do you expect us to take this actions in private and behind the scenes so as not to cause trouble in ather areas? I just can't tell from your posts what is is you want to see stopped.
joeluther
· 6 months ago
You are right there is no tearing down in this article , but I am hearing the word traitor being used and pointing out the gay leaders that are going to this dinner. This is the nasty stuff I am talking about. If I am wrong in not connecting with this article I apologize
timncguy
· 6 months ago
Ok, now I understand you position. And, I disagree with you. I don't believe any gay (leader, a-lister, or regular joe) should go to ANY DNC event or to the planned White House cocktail party at the end of the month. These functions will NOT be used as a forum to exchange ideas and get anything substantive accomplished. they will be used as photo ops to give politicians "cover". they will have photos to use to say, "see, many gays agree with the tactics we are employing".
If the pols what to have or provide opportunities to DISCUSS our issues with us, then have them do so at REAL WORKING MEETINGS where they are NOT trying to get money from us or not trying to schmooze in a cocktail party setting where Obama will appear for about 5 minutes and be GONE.
joeluther
· 6 months ago
I understand what your saying about attending this events at the White House. They are just photo opps and nothing will be addressed during that time. We do need to set up working meeting with the pol to get them to understand our anger and outrage on what has transpired this past week. The money has to stop coming into the DNC.
timncguy
· 6 months ago
therefore any gay who attends any of these "events" is a traitor and should be called one
mml34
· 6 months ago
i really don't think the LGBT community is divided on this. overwhelmingly, we're not placated by the administration's pathetic offering (weak benefits to a small percent of a small percent of our community) and pissed to the point of withdrawing support from democrats.
it's not just the people like me who post on blogs and protest and march, it's my "moderate/conservative" gay friends who are PISSED. these are people who don't get riled, who don't make a stink, who (in the past) have been patient. they're done with obama and the democrats if they don't come through on something SOON.
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
I think the only division is between the leadership and the lead, who are now leading instead.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
Other crap? Talking about it is crap?
WITHOUT THIS SITE THE SMALL WINS (as you call them, i call them bones thrown at us to shut us up) WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
*sighs and rubs temples*
ChrisSF
· 6 months ago
I don't understand how you "hold their feet to the fire" without "tearing them down." Not sure what "other crap" you would like to have stop. You mean people shouldn't talk about it?
joeluther
· 6 months ago
You hold them accountable.
ChrisSF
· 6 months ago
How do you hold them accountable without telling them about your dissatisfaction? I don't get it.
joeluther
· 6 months ago
You call them out on what they did, but don't call them names.
Jake
· 6 months ago
"Yes, under normal circumstances, if you give you me a quarter, I'll say thank you. But if you kick me in the balls and then give me a quarter, don't expect a goodnight kiss".
Bravo, John!
I've just started to read Douglas Rushkoff's "Life, Inc." and wow: deja vu. People get so accustomed to a mode, most become oblivious and others don't know how to get out of the trap.
Principles and values get thrown out the window for expediency. The prosperity baby boomers have enjoyed, controlled and exploited has engendered complacency.
MichaelS
· 6 months ago
This is what boggles my mind, that NO ONE seems to get that we aren't angry at the lack of action (OK, we're frustrated, but that was at a low simmer). No, we're goddamned pissed of because we got kicked in the balls.
Would McCain have givren us those paltry benefits we just got? Maybe not. But he might have moved faster on DADT because as a military man he'd see the damage it has done to the forces.
And his DOMA brief could not have been any worse than Obama's... there's only upside there, folks.
And for the record -- I'm a big bleeding heart liberal who contributed to and volunteered for Obama. And got kicked in the balls.
Django
· 6 months ago
I honestly don't think focusing our frustration on Congress is worth it anymore. "Call your congressman!" we used to say - Why bother? As the Democrats' cave-in on health care is showing yet again, lobby money talks and will even let you write the policies themselves, if you have enough to spend.
There has to be grassroots support for gay issues, from the non-urban closeted gays as well as the straight voters who helped elect Obama. I don't believe it's unobtainable. But how do we obtain it? It sounds perverse and feels naive to say it, but (deep breath)...What does Oprah think about this situation? Oprah, whose power is such that by simply posting a KFC Grilled Chicken coupon on her website all but brought the company to its knees because they were so under-supplied. Can you imagine what just one Oprah show dedicated to showing the damage, the physical and emotional suffering being caused by DADT could do? How many Oprah-holics even know the policy exists? THEY'RE the ones who'll call their congresspeople and complain and demand DADT be terminated, even if it's just "because Oprah said so!" I don't know positively whether Oprah is thoroughly supportive of the gay community, but she does have a strong sense of when people are being wronged. There has to be insider help and support - inside the country, that is - to get the treatment and respect we deserve. If we keep going back to Congress and expect they'll eventually lift a finger to end DADT and DOMA, we're just banging our heads against the brick wall we ourselves helped to build and are just now, to our unbelivable horror, finding it out.
By no means am I a "fan" of hers, but...I think "What would Oprah do?" is a perfectly valid question.
lileasy
· 6 months ago
There have long been rumors floating around regarding Oprah's sexuality. If she believes support for LGBT civil rights would harm her career and put a further spotlight on something she would perfer to keep to herself, I doubt she will have the courage to come out in support of these issues.
Django
· 6 months ago
That's a really fascinating viewpoint, something I didn't consider in the least...which makes the whole thing even more depressing than it already is...
bob jones
· 6 months ago
And like the good beaten spouse, we always come back for more because it's all we know, and at least it's something.
Really? Because if they fuck up healthcare and don't have an honest to goodness public option/singlepayer option passed by 51 votes in the senate i'm out. I'm not going to bother to vote Dem anymore when they betray core constituincies and can't get the single biggest issue right just because of the money they won't be getting for reelection.
I'll still vote, but it'll be for for socialist/communist candidates, because I guess giving up political/economic freed is the only way to get healthcare that doesn't cost a third of my income every month. (self-employed)
I'm tired of this bullshit coming from dems, oooo we don't want to overreach? When the polls show 75% of the country says the system is helplessly corrupt and broken and the only republican solution is standing with insurance companies you guys still don't know? FUCK THEM.
TrueBleuCA
· 6 months ago
I guess we can always take the money we don't donate to political candidates/causes and use it to help pay our out of pocket health care. Yeah, that will make a dent :?(
Dateline_Molly
· 6 months ago
I've been registered as either a Socialist or a Communist my entire adult life. I've never voted for a "mainstream" political candidate, ever.
Our economy isn't "coming back." About half a million people have been laid off EVERY MONTH in 2009. (Obama probably made huge gains with voters during the campaigning by chastising Bush on how many jobs were lost on GW's watch. It's actually become worse since Obfuck took office.) Many of those laid-off folks had health care that they will lose. If the situation gets dire enough, I would hope Americans would hit the streets around the country and hit the gates of the White House, DAY IN AND DAY OUT, until SOMETHING gets done. That is the only way change is going to happen. The ruling elites will not voluntarily give us single payer health care or any other programs that help level the playing field.
nicho
· 6 months ago
Just so we're clear -- Obama is the leader of the party. He calls in the Congressional Dems. He tells them what the administration's goals are. And then, he uses a system of carrots and sticks to make sure his agenda gets through Congress. He makes promises. He twists arms. And, when necessary, he kicks butt. At least that's the way it's supposed to work. He doesn't sit there and whine about what the Congress isn't doing.
I'm beginning to suspect that Obama isn't really in charge. There are some powers behind the throne directing things.
Name
· 6 months ago
incest and pedophilia. incest and pedophilia. incest and pedophilia. 24 hours a day. Damn! We all get it.
Liam
· 6 months ago
I don't get YOU!
If you are so fed up with this issue, then why don't you go post somewhere else? ANYwhere else. Almost EVERY other blog is ignoring this issue completely.
I am pissed off! I am not an animal fucker or a child molester or someone that sleeps with his sister. I expect this ignorance and hate from the Republicans, but I WILL NOT ACCEPT IT FROM THE PARTY I SUPPORT.
Not any more.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
No, we don't all get it, as evidenced by the "sit down and shut up" comments that still appear with irritating regularity.
ChrisSF
· 6 months ago
I understand you get it, but the problem is the administration doesn't seem to get it, because they have repeatedly defended that brief and haven't backed away from it one bit. They even got Barney Frank to issue a press release saying it was peachy keen after he had just condemned it not 24 hours earlier. They need to do something about it, like withdraw the brief and file a different one, or at least strike a very different tone in future briefs.
gaylib
· 6 months ago
And can I just say that I am sick and tired of the "McCain would have been worse" meme. No s*** he should have been worse. He's a Republican for god's sake. Using what a Republican would have done as a barometer of what we should expect from our allies just proves how insignificant these crumbs thrown to us are. And for the record, McCain actually signed a statement in 1994 agreeing not to discriminate against gays and lesbians in hiring practices on Capitol Hill. McCain certainly swung to the right last year, and his gesture was also ridiculously insignificant in the big picture of LGBT rights, but hey, that was 15 years ago. Shouldn't we expect something more substantive after so much time and from a Democratic President with overwhelming majorities in congress? I certainly do.
Moncusa
· 6 months ago
Why is everone so certain McCain would have been worse? No one has a crystal ball. Most of you insisted Obama would be the savior.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
Sarah Palin.
Checkmate.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 6 months ago
LOL. but seriously, i can well imagine McCain getting rid of DADT faster than Obama.
Moncusa
· 6 months ago
I agree with you on Palin. I never would have wanted her. McCain with somebody else...maybe. (But even with Palin, we STILL don't have crystal balls). But I also agree these comparisons and speculation are meaningless. It's Obama who is the President.
nessa
· 6 months ago
Maybe you have not heard McCain this week talking about the Iran situation, the man is scary he has no grasp on US history and how it relates to the Iran/US relationship. I just don't understand why people actually thought all of the huge problems from these past 8 years could be solved within 5 months. Bush had 8 years to take this country from a surplus in peacetime, to a major recession bordering on a depression and 2 unfinished wars, not to mention all the damage that happened in between.
Indigo
· 6 months ago
Under "normal circumstances," Sarah Palin would be Vice-President.
Jim
· 6 months ago
Under normal circumstances, Rosa Parks would have gone to the back of the bus.
nicho
· 6 months ago
Just for the record: Rosa Parks was in the back of the bus.
It's a common misconception that she refused to go to the back of the bus.
Drew2u
· 6 months ago
What's worse than being sent to the back of the bus? Being thrown under the bus.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
At least there's a breeze under the bus. Omg, a crumb!
ynow
· 6 months ago
There's no breeze anymore.
Too crowded.
Jack J.
· 6 months ago
Capehart is right, you're wrong...and shortsighted.
Put you're emotions in check and look at the bigger picture because all of this carping so soon in this presidency is losing you allies.
Jim
· 6 months ago
Pull your head out of the sand.
The president could at least use his bully pulpit on our behalf instead of using his DOJ to compare us to child molesters.
psychodrew
· 6 months ago
Agreed. During the campagin, Obama kept on talking about how he would change Washington. But he's fallin' back on this, "Congress has to do it first" approach. Is that the leadership we were promised?
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
Yeah, and i guess if the gays were carping on about the issues YOU think are important, everything would be just peachy keen?
Piss off. You're losing US as an ally.
Jack J.
· 6 months ago
That's OK, losing you as an allie is a plus. This is an important issue to me and history has taught me that no issue has ever been won or if won, have lasted, when it's driven by 1/2 assed demented screamers like you.
Cooler heads will prevail and we'll do just fine and get it done without you..
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
No issue has ever been won by fawning compromisers who are satisfied with the status quo or cling to a decades old strategy that has seen a net gain of ZERO victories.
It's been won by people who pushed and shoved and fought and refused to be mollified with half assed bones tossed their way.
It's not about cooler heads, it's about pushing the dinosaurs out of the way and embracing new tactics that actually HAVE an impact rather than cling to failed strategies that so-called "allies" prefer because it doesn't rock the boat.
No gay rights, no gay dollars, no gay votes. They've held us hostage for decades with promises of "maybe doing something". if we just voted for them and donated more hard earned gay dollars and for what?
NOTHING.
It's our turn to hold them hostage with the threat of being pushed out of power by their own spinelessness, which should have been done LONG ago.
Keep clinging to your antiquated, failed strategy. Keep the boat from rocking. Don't make any noise and don't dare to upset people. It'll keep you busy and out of the way.
North
· 6 months ago
OK, but what ARE those tactics? What are you talking about? Boycotting politics? Refusing to work with an administration that's had a tin ear so far, but looks to be trying to get something changed? That's one single tactic. And I think it's pretty useless.
Aravosis doesn't speak for me. I'm not going to boycott any organization because they wanted to go to an event that might help communicate our needs and issues to the president. In fact, I'll applaud them.
I'll also applaud people who are committing civil disobedience, protesting, whatever. But this community doesn't have to eat itself.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
With holding votes and funds, refusing the bait of bones thrown at us, and refusing to attend events where people express their "disappointment" at being compared to criminals and child predators, for a start.
The community is in dire need of a full blown enema, we have "leaders" who are basically telling the rest of us to sit down and shut up and take what we're given so they can keep going to galas and be in Barry's good ol boy club for house faggots.
No thanks.
In any community, hierarchy, or species there is a certain amount of natural selection that goes on. Some people are just political dead ends and need to be surpassed by more aggressive members.
gaylib
· 6 months ago
Surprise, surprise. Another person trying to shame us into silence. Are we being too emotional Jack? So are we like women when they demanded equal rights that were told they were "on the rag"? Or are we like the African Americans of the civil rights movement who were told they were being too "uppity"? Now the gays are in a "tizzy" and throwing "hissy fits", is that what you meant jack? you're no better than those that opposed the equality movements that have preceded us. We don't need or want allies like you.
ChrisSF
· 6 months ago
What allies have been lost? All I can see is that nothing was getting done, and now a little something got done, and we finally at least have someone's attention. Honestly the tone-deafness of this administration has been frustrating people for months and, after the Rick Warren fiasco, this DOMA brief was an affirmative slap in the face that was really too much to to take. I am very eager to see whether the next DOJ brief in the DOMA cases strikes a different note or not. That will be the proof in the pudding.
hsa_ash
· 6 months ago
Although I can see his point I've got to agree with you, John. Congress must repeal the laws, sure, but Obama does have the opportunity and the influence to move us in the right direction. He, his advisers, and lawyers, have chosen not to. My wallet is closed for the time-being and my energies will not be wasted thanking the Administration for the crumbs.
georgenationdotcom
· 6 months ago
All of this carping is losing allies? I am not a gay man. I am happily married with 4 children. I am a true conservative, this means I despise ever single republican in government with the exception of Ron Paul. If I had any portion of my civil liberties held back due to a dogmatic view based in religion, personal taste, or a governments view on whether or not my lifestyle was "deviant" I would be outraged as well. One day, people in this country will revolt and realize unless you support only the constitution and the limits on federal/state power it creates YOU WILL NEVER attain the liberties you seek. Back away from the Democrat and Republican parties and stand for the constitution and take the power back now.
ChrisSF
· 6 months ago
Yay, we love libertarians, even though we secretly think they're nuts! :)
Steve_in_CNJ
· 6 months ago
LMAO. libertarians are like people who read about the dietary qualities of yogurt and decide to give up all other kinds of food.
lileasy
· 6 months ago
Even the American revolution was preceeded by years of "carping" by the likes of Sam Adams and Thomas Paine. Expressing dissatisfaction is a necessary first step in affecting change. I doubt people who are being disaffected by these conversations can seriously be called "allies." I think all of these "carping" people are ready to "stand for the constitution and take the power back now." Sure wish it were that simple.
Wesinoregon
· 6 months ago
Truman's executive order. About African-Americans in the military in 1948.
Thank you for posting this. You can add to this Lincoln's Proclamation Emancipation. When did we start making simple matters of equality so complicated?
nessa
· 6 months ago
There was no law keeping blacks out of the military or separated from their white counterparts. Just saying. Obama has always said he wants to overturn it with legislation. DADT is now the law of the land unfortunately. I believe it’s going to get done, just when is the big question.
davefragments
· 6 months ago
Start by being an activist and not a blog poster... You are the loudest voice you have... Write a letter asking for the (a) repeal of DOMA, (b) federal recognition of gay marriage and (c) repeal of DADT. Then call the White house on the telephone. Then write a letter. Then send an email. Then twitter. Then start on your congressman. Then get your friends to do the same. Then start an online petition... Keep is simple and straight forward -- Three things is all anyone remembers. Be loud and be heard at the White House. Heard in Congress.
This is the way to be heard and be effective. Be vocal and noisy and swamp them with messages and never stop until you get what you want.
gaylib
· 6 months ago
"Start by being an activist and not a blog poster..."--A lot of us can multi-task.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
Maybe we can teach Obama, OH SNAP wait he can multitask on everything but gay issues. Wars, middle east peace, economic disaster = easy .. gay rights? IMPOSSIBLE!
2) Who said I haven't been deluging them this whole time
sam2300
· 6 months ago
And yet here you are posting a blog entry.
davefragments
· 6 months ago
I sent my letters, emails and messages to my congressmen and the white house. DID YOU? If you didn't, don't bother to criticize until you DO IT. Put your money where your mouth is!
sam2300
· 6 months ago
Yes, I did. I was simply challenging your assumption that anyone posting a blog entry WOULDN'T have done all that. I thought it was a ridiculous assumption, given the fact that:
a) you were also posting a blog entry b) people who are so passionate about an issue that they spend time in front of a computer on a Sunday morning probably have already done the "legwork" of which you speak
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
"Yes, under normal circumstances, if you give you me a quarter, I'll say thank you. But if you kick me in the balls and then give me a quarter, don't expect a goodnight kiss."
PREACH IT, brother! EXACTLY...
INTERVENTION TIME!
Name
· 6 months ago
I don't think anyone (A-lister or not) thinks that "crumbs suffice" -- but we also need to be aware of where the levers of power are and how to use them.
The DNC losing their gAyTM privileges for a while is something that is appropriate and a place where we have enough power to make a difference. That's going to be the only way to get Congress' attention.
The White House is another matter -- we don't have direct power to push them... instead, we need to push their buttons. Continue to meet, but continue to express our disappointment (and anger) at how behind the times they are and out of touch they are and how 1990's GOP they sound, etc... and keep replaying their own words from the campaign. Get under their skin.
Oh -- and if people want leadership in the community, it doesn't help recruit new leaders if they know that they'll be flamed, undercut and shot at from the sidelines if their least little move doesn't conform to the "right-thinking bloggers" notions.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
If they were any kind of leaders to begin with they would lead in a way that garnered the most support from their base, thus negating the need for flaming and undercutting.
And frankly, being undercut and flamed because you tell your base to shut up and be glad for your scraps is flaming and undercutting very well earned.
That's not leading. That's failure.
Oldnovice
· 6 months ago
I don't quite know what to think about all this.
I support Obama and had questioned his decisions several times during his campaign. Every damn time, it turned out that he knew what he was doing and I was just too short-sighted to see it. Every damn time!
I don't get why he's doing what he's doing on this, either. I'm gonna give him a little more time, though, I think, before I get out the pitchforks.
Might there be some reverse psychology going on? With the Republicans saying "No" to anything Obama suggests, might it be that he's looking for THEM to suggest that Gays are NOT incestual child molesting miscreants (at which time the entire country would say "Amen")?
Steve_in_CNJ
· 6 months ago
you have to pay attention to details if you're going to successfully navigate the "obama works in mysterious ways" meme. when asked if GLs had a friend in the WH, he said he supported hospital visitation rights (in other words the question jogged a dim memory from the 80s). his token photo-op on friday and the WH party later in the month are hastily arranged reactions to blowback. there is nothing mysterious about a man who doesn't know where he's going. and finally, what mysterious advantage accrued from inviting a hateful bigot to bless his inauguration? does obama now have a big religious right following? i didn't think so.
lileasy
· 6 months ago
I think we owe the President at least as much support as he is getting from the Saddleback congregation.
DaveVentura
· 6 months ago
Be careful. For all we know Rick Warren is advising Obama. Obama is keeping his visitor's logs secret and it could be stuff like as to why he wont make it public despite previous court rulings are presidential visitor's logs.
bgoldmund
· 6 months ago
olive branch? we have constitutional guarantees of universal equality. olive branch? as long as someone's/anyone's religious whims are going to determine the universal equal application of the law, even the cutest and cuddliest of heterosexuals runs the danger of rights suppression.
dula
· 6 months ago
Jonathan and that Stampp dude are defending Obama because he is Black. Pam Spaulding must be getting a lot of shit for bucking the trend of Blacks refusing to criticize Obama's policies because of his color. Besides Pam, what Black person in the media has anything negative to say about him? We have a Democracy (cough, cough) to run here, Working Class Blacks especially, better ignore his color and demand that this Centrist Democrat doesn't sell us out to the corporate elite...starting with Single-Payer healthcare. Now go ahead and attack me for being racist.
ChrisSF
· 6 months ago
I don't think anyone needs to attack you as racist. Your post kinda proves that all by itself.
Gary SF
· 6 months ago
Besides Pam, what Black person in the media has anything negative to say about him? Alan Keyes?
Seriously, there aren't a lot of blacks in the media. And saying that 'working class blacks' need to do anything in order to move forward ignores the fact that blacks are only about 13% of the population and probably even less of the voting population.
I wouldn't call you racist because your motives do not appear to be driven by hate. But you seem a little ignorant about the just how much power that African Americans have.
Blueflash
· 6 months ago
African Americans have power in the debate over gay rights that far outweighs their numbers. First of all because, for better or worse, our society sees them as the civil rights torch bearers and the moral voice and arbiter in matters of civil rights. Secondly, because opposition to gay legal equality among African Americans is used by our opponents as a way to depict the GLB community as nothing more than a bunch of spoiled affluent whites who should quit whining and appreciate the privileged position they already enjoy.
dula
· 6 months ago
13% is a nice sized voting block. So what you are saying is the Gay Community (under 10%) has no power so it doesn't matter if we try and influence the political process.
rkwright
· 6 months ago
Stammp Corbin wrote:
Last Thursday, the Attorney General filed a legal brief in a California federal case challenging the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) that made arguments that compared same sex marriage to incest. Thursday, President Obama announced the extension of some benefits to LGBT federal employees; just not the most coveted ones, like health care and pension benefits. Oh that's right, Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) prevents that and you just wrote a legal brief defending it. When I wake up each morning, I feel a bit schizophrenic myself, "I love Obama, I hate Obama, I am ambivalent about Obama." It's maddening.
Someone get me a Prozac.
I ask, "Mr. President how can you argue for the legality of DOMA, when you are for its repeal?"
You really are talking out of both sides of your mouth and my community knows it.....
Mr. President, your DOMA mistake awakened a sleeping giant. He is mad as hell and is not going to take it anymore. You better get LGBT affirming legislation moving quickly or the coffers of the LGBT community will be slammed shut on the fingers of your administration and the DNC. You and the DNC may find themselves asking about our donations "if not now, when" as we have been asking about our rights for the last few months.
I hardly call that a defense of Obama. One can support the President as President, but not support ALL of his actions on every issue. Your comments are off base in regards to his (wide-lol j/k) stance on the issue. I support a lot of the "agenda" we were sold on as a bill of goods in the electoral process, and on those issues I will be vocally supportive (still keeping my cash though) as I SHOULD be. Let us slam the right people, and not those who have stood up to be counted, especially someone who was a leader in Obama's campaign for President. For him to make his public statements was a HUGE deal. We need to remember that.
dula
· 6 months ago
Wow that was a fast turn around from his recent CNN appearance. Good for him...and us.
TrueBleuCA
· 6 months ago
Be careful on wishing for some of the bigger morsels. At ages 60 and 57, my husband of 35 years and I are really wanting DOMA repealed prior to DADT. Call it selfish, but aging GLBT boomers are gonna be in a hell of a mess without access to medical and retirement benefits of our spouses.
I am afraid if DADT gets done first, because it is the easiest due to public opinion, that we will be told that's all we're going to get. Basically told that the equality account has dried up. Try again later, maybe next round.
Gary SF
· 6 months ago
Call me an optimist, but my feeling that if DADT is repealed, most of our other issues can be addressed on the 'coattails' of the DADT success.
lileasy
· 6 months ago
I've been with my partner for 42 years, so I understand your feelings, but I am not sure Gary SF may not be right regarding the significance of a DADT withdrawal pulling the rest behind.
Gary SF
· 6 months ago
I need to add this: I will benefit from the right to marry more than most. My partner is not a citizen and we don't have any right to live together in the US. So it is no like I am unsympathetic.
If we had the right to marry, he could come here and live with me. As it is, I'm taking early retirement and moving to Europe so we can live together.
But I still think that a good strategy is to repeal DADT first. But I support almost any efforts to get us our rights, in any order.
lileasy
· 6 months ago
May the Force be with us all.
Bruno
· 6 months ago
[sarcasm]Oh come on John, you're going to have to take a much more conciliatory tone if you ever expect to be published in the LGBT rights juggernaut that is the WaPo.[/sarcasm]
Dr. Brent Zenobia
· 6 months ago
We need to keep up the pressure on Obama and the DNC to deliver. By now they certainly know that the LGBT community is infuriated and that the Democrats are going to have to rethink their priorities for repealing DOMA/DADT and enacting ENDA/hate crimes. We need to protest the DNC fundraiser to demonstrate that we mean business.
It’s heartening that our community is finally stirring from 15 years of complacency, and it will be very interesting to see how the fundraising protest unfolds. But always remember that our main goal is to win passage of our legislative priorities. Protest is just a means toward that end. It’s very easy for protest to become end in itself, an addictive emotional high that comes at the expense of the main goals. I was in ACT-UP during the late 1980s and saw how misdirected anger caused us to blindly lash out at inappropriate targets, waste our energies on infighting, and burn out our members. The final result was estrangement from the larger community and ACT-UP’s demise.
Toward that end, we need to stay engaged with Obama and the DNC. We can accomplish a lot more by combining confrontation and lobbying than we can by employing either tactic on its own. Except for the fundraising protest, I recommend that we ratchet down our rhetoric this week. In the first place, it’s important to see whether Obama and the DNC have gotten the message. With this week’s DNC meeting, White House party, and especially the DOJ meeting, the Obama administration is clearly signaling that it wants a truce and a dialogue. We should engage with them to ensure that this dispute is not just about lousy communication. (The DOJ meeting is by far the most important of the three, since it will be the best indicator of their future actions.)
The second reason for cooling down the rhetoric this week is that the online LGBT community is getting out ahead of the offline community. I attended Pride here in Portland on June 14th (a couple of days after the DOJ brief) and asked several people if they’d heard about it. Almost no one had, except for one volunteer at the Oregon Stonewall Democrats booth; he was as upset as we were. Even the person in charge of the HRC booth hadn’t heard about the DOJ brief yet. Offline word of mouth is spreading, but it’s slower than blogging. It's going to take a little time for the offline LGBT community to realize that our blind trust in Obama has been misplaced. It’s a process. Time is on our side; let’s use that fact to our advantage. I recommend that we give Obama until the end of this week to see whether he acts to correct these mistakes. We shouldn’t insist on an apology, because that’s both too easy (he could use more words to squirm out of honoring his committments) and too difficult (it doesn’t help our cause to cause Obama to lose face.) Rather than symbolic gestures, we should keep a laser-like focus on our top priorities: the DOJ should stop defending DOMA in the courts, and Obama should issue an immediate stop-loss on DADT. These steps only require a show of will on Obama's part; once these steps are secured we can then turn our focus on Congress to build support and finish the job.
We shouldn’t need to wait for long. We’ll know by June 29th whether our protests have affected the DOJ's approach to the Massachusetts DOMA cases. That will be the best indicator of whether Obama intends to change course.
Our community has delivered what amounts to an ultimatum: either the DOJ stops defending DOMA in court, or it’s war. This week we play the waiting game.
lileasy
· 6 months ago
I don't get it. Who is in this off-line LGBT community? I am in my 60's and feel fairly well in touch. I figured everyone younger than me would even be more so. I know it bothers me a bit that there seemed to be no change in the tone of the Pride celebrations this year. I guess I was hoping that there would be some sign that folks were taking this matter seriously and perhaps might use the parades as an opportunity to express their outrage. I would hate to think that all this emotion and concern is limited to a couple of blogs and one radio program. I mean, how can anyone in our community be unaware of what is going on?
Hmm, what do you make of this? Gays to petition first lady and pelosi, and news conference cancelled?
Hope that mean nothing ontoward for Petrelis.
rkwright
· 6 months ago
He owes more of an explanation since he has posted about this on various blogs with call to action, and then no reasons given. One wonders what happened.
HereinDC
· 6 months ago
"They, and so many of us, have been beaten down for so long that we expect the beatings."
I've heard something like this on Judge Judy....
Asking the beaten housewife about her second husband and why does she stay with him.... She says " he doesn't beat me up as much as my first husband."
I know it's a bit harsh...but...
.why do you defend Obama?.....he doesn't treat us as bad as Bush did.
it
· 6 months ago
I completely disagree. Our community is not big enough, unified enough, or powerful enough to be a full -on kingmaker. We got pissed, we got heard, we got the right words and some symbolism. We have to engage now in a productive way to move it forward, not engage in an ongoing temper tantrum.
Making threats to the community for not being sufficiently militant is a sure way to fracture the movement. Let's not forget who the real enemies are. WHy the hell do we keep forming circular firing squads?
If we don't engage productively, and carry our share of responsibility rather than expect it to be carried, the most likely response is a big "F-U" from the straight Dems. THey don't need the headache from us as well as the other guys. Let's take them at their word and get to work with them. Will we be dsappointed? Inevitably. But we'll be disappointed more if we don't take our share of the responsibility.
Gridlock
· 6 months ago
Sorry, when's the last time we actually held our "leaders" or :"representatives" accountable for any actual progress or victories?
It's been a few decades. We've been happy to let them work behind the scenes and donate money to them.
Not any more. THey've proven their uselessness and their willingness to sell their own communities down the river for a nice party and some champagne.
It's been a long time since the community has been fired up, and it's been a long time since our "leaders" actually did anything of note.
Time for some new blood.
RickInSF
· 6 months ago
Does the old Gay exclamation apply here? You know the one: "Oh, beat me!..Whip me! Make me write BAD CHECKS!!!"
buddhistMonkey
· 6 months ago
((( "Last week also brought the announcement that we are akin to incest and pedophilia." )))
Only, that's not what was said in the brief. Barney Frank pointed that out, and in your hysteria, you charged him with throwing gays under the bus. Yes, I'm so sure that Barney Frank, of all people, is throwing gays under the bus. Really, he's just another adult that the little kids here at the little kids' table can throw a tantrum about.
When are you going to stop with the self-defeating, overheated rhetoric? Your snide tone, hyperbolic name-calling, and dextrous lifting of out-of-context quotes is indistinguishable from any run-of-the-mill birther. Once you started referring to Obama as a "fraud," it's a pretty small step from referring to him as "the Kenyan."
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
Well, actually, the former homosexual known as Barney Frank was against the brief before he was for it. And as we now know, it is entirely possible that Barney never read the statement you're now quoting. http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/barney-frank...
But please don't insult our intelligence and suggest that the DOJ's DOMA brief did not cite cases of the state banning incest and pedophilia as the two examples of why it's okay for the state to ban gay marriage. People can go an read it for themselves.
((( "Well, actually, the former homosexual known as Barney Frank was against the brief before he was for it." )))
Thanks for proving my point about your ridiculous, hyperbolic rhetoric. Is a "former homosexual" anything like a "formerly credible blogger?"
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
His point, obviously, is that there was a time when Barney Frank was far more passionate about glbt issues. And far more sensitive to how Washington treats us.
In my opinion, his not understanding the pain that the DOMA brief specifically caused the community, ESPECIALLY after the nightmare of Proposition 8, shows the problem with Frank.
He is so entrenched in the establishment, and his own personal position in the new political order, that he has become grotesquely out-of-touch with glbt sensitivities.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely and I think John was making the point that he is a totally different man in Washington.
I tend to agree.
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
Don't insult our intelligence by acting as if John was the sole person to point out the insulting language of the brief.
The New York Times pointed it out in an editorial. Howard Dean referred to it in his interview with Rachel Maddow. Many have pulled out of the upcoming fundraiser because they have seen many references to the offensive nature of the wording of the brief, not because they are afraid of angering John. That brief went way beyond what needed to be said, if they were going to defend DOMA. I think we can thank the Mormon holdover from the Bush Admistration for that.
If you want to be an apologist, go right ahead.
I was an ardent Obama supporter and I would have had far more respect for him, at present, if he had the decency to apologize for the language used by his Justice Department. If he does not distance himself, it ultimately means he codifies those remarks.
I was gonna post on here today about the brief he filed on DADT, but edited my comments when I saw John had already included it.
Sorry, but an apology would have been far more effective than trying to act as if providing some benefits for some federal workers will make everything better.
It is apparent that the glbt community is a very low priority.
The White House would not have even reacted had they not feared a loss of revenue from wealthy donors.
I do not think we need to be over-the-top in our rhetoric, but I feel the need to forcefully express our anger, in combination with a cutoff to the funding our community provides...until we see some action...not mere window dressing.
We have waited our whole lives and Obama does not even have the courage to show any movement on DADT, despite polling showing it is a safe move. Forget that only the U.S. and Turkey are the only NATO nations in the Dark Ages on this.
Not only that, his DOJ team argues against DADT before the Supreme Court.
Enough is enough.
Sometimes actually expressing honest rage and anger is cathartic and healthy, rather than pretending it doesn't exist.
If it means not getting the A-list invitation to the White House gala, so be it.
buddhistMonkey
· 6 months ago
((( "Don't insult our intelligence by acting as if John was the sole person to point out the insulting language of the brief." )))
Where, exactly, did I say that John was the "sole person, etc.?" If you feel that your intelligence was insulted, maybe it's your lack of reading comprehension that is the culprit.
leliorisen
· 6 months ago
I write a long, measured response and you have the chutzpah to reply in a nasty, snarky manner that you just accused John of using.
My reading comprehension is just fine. And I can smell a hypocrite a mile away.
My point in writing that comment, specifically referred to your writing about John's alleged,"dextrous lifting of out-of-context quotes."
Your very clear implication, when one looks at the totality of your comment, is that John is inducing anti-Obama hysteria by falsely reporting on the brief. Or are you now denying that?
Your implication is that he is out of the mainstream. Yet many read the exact same thing into it. Olbermann, Maddow, the NY Times, Professor Dean, and on and on.
Did they also lift it out-of-context as well?
By being nasty and snarky with me you just cut into your own credibility.
mml34
· 6 months ago
are you saying that we're "with the terrorists" buddistmonkey?
buddhistMonkey
· 6 months ago
Firedoglake relentlessly holds Obama's feet to the fire, but they don't do it by using hysterical birther rhetoric which ultimately undermines their credibility. This site does.
nessa
· 6 months ago
I agree, I have also seen several people calling him Barry, I am not sure if these people are even Democrats, but I digress, others on this site are sincere and want this President to live up to his promises.
Ben
· 6 months ago
Actually, most people referring to Berry, are speaking about John Berry, the Director of the Office of Personnel Management (OPM). He is the highest ranking openly gay man in the Obama White House.
It's funny, they keep talking about the 60 votes in the Senate. The Democratic leadership should be careful about that, since that was one of the issues in NY that caused the uproar in the NY state Senate.
Ben
· 6 months ago
I also meant to mention that Berry was sent out prior to Obama signing his little memo for a Q&A to try and pacify us.
mml34
· 6 months ago
since when did the birthers co-opt the english language? maybe they have in your head. no one here is using that term in that way, and you know it.
what, is the term "fraud" forever off limits in whatever context just because some nut-jobs on the right wing used it once?
what would you prefer we call someone who says one thing and does another? someone who takes our money and calls himself a "fierce advocate" and then slanders us in a legal brief?
we're suddenly the ones who've messed the rug because we don't want to hand over our money and support anymore?
buddhistMonkey
· 6 months ago
((( "since when did the birthers co-opt the english language?" )))
It's AmericaBlog that is co-opting the birther's language, not the other way around.
((( "no one here is using that term in that way, and you know it." )))
I can't determine the difference in intent between two people using identical words. How do you do it?
My point is, this site (which, by the way, has served as my homepage for 4+ years) is using the same demeaning language, the same endless snark, the same hatred, and the same overarching cynicism as the birther sites. Tell me, in what way is this site any different, at this point, than NoQuarterUSA.net?
mml34
· 6 months ago
not familiar with the website you referenced. don't particularly want to be familiar with it, either.
granted, there is quite a bit of snark and cynicism floating around. i think it's justified. i don't hate obama. i voted for the guy! i do feel cheated by him - quite simply, his actions on GLBT issues haven't lived up to his rhetoric. i'm holding out hope that that will change.
but, until it does, i'm not sending any money or support his way.
i'm not sure what language you refer to when you say "demeaning." maybe language someone was quoting from the DOJ brief? seriously though - i can understand the anger and frustration.
this community has been used and abused (literally and figuratively) for years. we've sat in the back of the bus and waited patiently, for years.
buddhistMonkey
· 6 months ago
When every other story on this site is dripping with snark, and calling Obama a fraud, or a liar, or a betrayer, or a gay-hater, or some such nonsense, it turns my stomach. It's like going to your favorite fishing hole, and finding that someone has dumped two tons of toxic waste in the water.
Christi
· 6 months ago
I've noticed that a lot of the gay websites have allowed the DOMA brief / incest comparison story to drop to the bottom of the page, with less important news stories on top.
This means that gay people who check these sites this weekend will not see how awful that brief was.
I think that the DOMA / incest comparison should be a banner headline on all gay sites for the next year (or until DOMA is repealed, which looks like it could take ten years or more).
If the Democrats lose control of congress in the midterm elections next year, it could be another ten years or more before the Democrats control the white house, senate, and congress again.
johnsmart
· 6 months ago
Mr. Avarosis, this late in the game anger at Obama is pathetic. The man has never shown any consistent integrity. EVER. From Alice Palmer on. It is self evident that Mrs. Clinton was the better candidate by Obama was "cool". So everyone got the hopey changey express...to hell.
The Gay are pedophiles should NOT shock anyone. The man has never committed to any cause other than his own advancement. EVER. For God sake why didn't people like you do any research?
All Comments
So holding his 'feet to the fire' is appropriate. Congress didn't promise anything. Obama did.
The comparison that the apologists such as Jonathan often use (would McCain be better?) is a false dichotomy: McCain never promised us anything so why should Obama's record on our civil rights ever result in bringing McCain into the debate?
It's as if I bought a car - say a VW - and it develops a problem. I take it back to the dealer to get fixed and they defensively respond 'so you think it would have been any better if you bought a Ford?'
Idiotic logic.
Half-baked ham with Hush, Puppies!
Outflanked steak with bitter greens and charred onion.
Don't Ask, Don't Tell Mystery Meat cassoulet.
Beaten egg drop soup from Pho Que.
Twice-pounded chicken paillard with whipped potato garnish.
Twice-burned bitter chocolate creme brulee.
Raw toll-house cookie dough gelato.
Whiskey sours and sour green appletinis at the cash bar.
Barack Obama himself said that he was a "fierce advocate" for us. We didn't put those words in his mouth. And he must deliver on that promise. Repeal of DADT, for instance, MUST be forcefully driven by the Commander-in-Chief. I've called my Congresswoman and Senators about this. But I don't have the same clout as the White House has on Congress. And I sure as fuck can't tell the Pentagon what to do. But the Commander-in-Chief has that authority.
Maybe this is a wrong analogy or comparison or maybe it isn't relevant. But I think that the passage of Prop 8 changed everything in this community. The first time, ever, that a constitutional amendment TAKES AWAY the rights of a group of people that they were legally given. I think this community was energized by the viciousness of this and they are still pissed. And they look at the silence, first the inaction, then the hostility towards us with the DOMA brief and this community won't take bullshit anymore. Some dinner is just going to mollify people like Joe Solomonese. It's not going to do a fucking thing for my right to marry my boyfriend. Or to stop good people like Daniel Choi for being discharged from the military simply because he's gay.
These people are dinosaurs mired in the tar of their own lick spittle subservience.
Maybe its time for a true progressive party, one that embraces full and equal gay rights as one of its main issues. Just a thought.
This would be an especially good strategy to pursue in Democratic strongholds, where the electorate is not especially Conservative. I do understand that, in some regions, we have to hold our noses and go with the blue dogs.
NOW you want to be critical of him for throwing gays under the bus?
Sorry, John ..... you're one of the guys who put him in the charge of the bus.
It's the hypocritical outrage NOW.
be that as it may, there's no "hypocrisy" in having supported a pro-gay candidate who turns out to be a lemon. it would be hypocritical to pretend he's not a lemon.
I like her again now, but let's not play games and pretend that anything would be different now.
As for Obama, yes, I'm a very bad man for watching someone screw up and then giving them another chance. Had we not given Obama several "other chances" we would be in no position to demand "no more excuse" and "no more talk" at this point - people would be saying, hey he screwed up, let him explain himself and try again. So, sorry, but I'm not going to apologize for giving him the chance to prove himself, after your candidate freaked out over a gay question.
The election is over. Get over it. The community needs to come together now.
BTW - Hillary wasn't "my candidate", and even IF it's true that she canceled the interview to duck a question about DOMA, that in no way excuses your horrible treatment of her and your looking-the-other-way-no-matter-what treatment of Obama. "Let's not play games and pretend anything would be different now"? Really? You KNOW that Hillary wouldn't have issued an executive order stopping the enforcement of DADT? You KNOW that she would've had her DOJ file a homophobic brief that could have been written by Jerry Falwell?
NOW you have these powers of prescience?
But thanks for the newsflash about the election being over.
Get over it? Maybe.
But certainly not because you're telling me to.
Beat that.
You weren't the guy on the imaginary cover of Life Magazine that gave rise to 0bama's "racial epiphany"?
Let's see ...... would I rather a candidate exaggerate about a danger they faced in Bosnia, or lie about opposing FISA and compare gays to pedophiles and incest?
Wow, ........ just like Staples.
That was EASY.
Yeah, ......
BTW - I never said Hillary would be a better candidate. Simply that your tired, old sniper line could be just as easily applied to Obama, ...
... for "exaggerations" re: policy that are much more relevant (i.e. FISA, DADT, renditions, etc.)
While I am no longer in Barney Franks district, I used to be, and I've supported him and voted for him in the past. And when I say past, I mean when they weren't easy victories, they were victories in the 80s. Sorry, but I can't believe that he didn't read the brief the moment it came out. The man went to Harvard Law School.
I suspect a chunk of the stimulus package will be heading to his district in the not to distant future.
I don't understand Jonathan. It's not the president's inaction that bothers me, I would be happy with inaction. As John said, it's what he's actually doing.
Don't donate, that's fine. Cut off your noses to spite your faces like a bratty kid.
Cripple the DNC so that it can't fight the GOP and the GOP will keep on raising money to fight us. And THEY ARE raising money.
Don't you morons get that?
Uh huh.
"Fair weather friends" of Obama? I busted my ass for that man. I donated more money than I have EVER donated to a candidate in my life. I canvassed neighborhoods in a neighboring state THREE TIMES IN ONE YEAR. I phone banked, attended rallys, and persuaded my own conservative family members to support him.
Once elected, Obama back pedelled on every promise. He wasn't a "fierce advocate" HE WAS "FAIR WEATHER." He has allowed 200+ service men and women to be discharged for being gay. Heros with needed expertise have been discharged while white supremecists and gang members have been recruited. That is appalling. Especially during a time of war.
And then the DoJ brief comparing the legal status of my 11 year relationship to one of incest or pedophilia.
I will no longer give money to these luke-warm democrats. They have time to write funny speeches for award ceremonies. They have time to attend another photo shoot with the latest winning team and to compare their charts. They have time to attend Broadway shows with romantic dinners afterwards, but are "too busy" to protect me and my family from second class pergatory.
Ask Rick Warren and Donnie McCloset and JACK J. for support, Democrats. But don't expect any support from me or my family until your actions meet your eloquent words.
"Fair Weather Friend?"
Kiss my gay ass.
No one in their right mind would prefer a McCain presidency. It's irrelevant, isn't it? Didn't happen. It is, was and will continue to be the time for intelligent activism. The one point I will agree with from the article is that there absolutely needs to be an aggressive effort to deal with the legislative side of these issues. The one and only thing the Congress cares about is money, so it is such a surprise that they actually sit up and notice when you close the checkbooks.
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Congress has said nothing for us, done nothing for us, and even admitted they have no plans to do anything for us.
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People who are so-called friends and allies of the gay community have been telling us to sit down and shut up and be glad we have a seat on the bus at all, even if that seat happens to be in front of the wheels. The comments from the "I am your friend but am tired of hearing about this issue" people in this blog have amazed me. YOU try living as "less-than" for your entire life.
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We are tired. We are tired of being lied to, being told to wait, and being made empty and false promises. Gay people are still fired from their jobs simply for being gay. Gay people are barred from adopting in many states. Gay people are not allowed to be married in 44 states. Gay partners are not allowed to visit their partners on their death bed in many states. Gay people who serve honorably are still kicked out of the military every single day. Gay people are still beaten and killed because they happen to be gay. Gay people are not allowed to jointly file their federal taxes. When the executive and legislative branch is controlled by Democrats and they do absolutely NOTHING within their power to help us, yes, we are going to stop giving them money and no, we are not going to stop lighting a fire under their a$$ to live up to their promises or move aside so someone who actually does care can be elected. So yes, many of us are okay with hurting the DNC a little bit.
Hey Democrats! Can you hear us now?!?
No gay rights? NO GAY MONEY!!
If you feel we could cost the dems the election, then why isn't one of your options to EARN our support?
Why do you, and all those I mentioned above act like you would rather lose the next election than to take ACTION that would earn our support?
Why do you expect US to save you from repug rule, when clearly you and those I mentioned have to power to save yourself by EARNING our support.
What we are expecting would be much less excpet for the DOJ DOMA brief.
Now, get this list done, and you would earn our support:
1. Obama, apologize for the DOJ Brief
2. Obama, sign an executive stop loss order suspending DADT
3. Congress, present your plan (with timelines) for repeal of DADT and DOMA and for the passage of ENDA and Hate Crimes legislation.
3 easy steps. No one is demanding anything immediate except for the apology and stop loss order. Both are EASY to do and neither would cost any political capital or cause a backlash.
But, like I said. It appears as though the dems would prefer to suffer ANYTHIING, rather than to do what we have asked for. They are going OUT OF THEIR way to find "alternate" crumbs to try to appease us when they KNOW what they need to do and have the power to do it.
If ANYONE is a "Fair weather friend" it is the Obama Administration. We aren't going to be taken advantage of and compromised over again. We aren't going to wait as if this were the beginning of the Clinton Administration. Someone horribly miscalculated in the Obama Admin if they think we will.
Do friends fuck you over and attack you?
Do friends compare you to pedophiles and your relationships to incest?
The DNC won't be crippled IF THEY ADHERE TO THE PROMISES THEY MADE IN THE CAMPAIGN.
So far, they've done the opposite and have gone out of their way to attack us.
They cripple themselves with their own stupidity.
How dimwitted do you have to be to have that completely escape your notice?
as Liam suggested below, try replacing us with the religious right if you start missing our support.
"I guess I am having a hard time with the word traitor."
timncguy :
"would the term asshole for them make you less uncomfortable?"
joeluther :
You know I like that word better :) . Thank you for expressing how you feel about this issue, it helps me understand how people are feeling about it.
(Copied and moved up because of word wrapping to make more legible)
Gotta send a message to both democrats and the A-list gays that we average gays won't be their fools to steal from anymore.
All this time, average gays have been paying for these wild-haired freaks to attend posh little parties and stuff like that - and that's pretty much it. Attention whores having a good time on everyone else's wallet, and dicking off. It's just like Prop 8 - only fools would believe it was bungled "by mistake". Eccentric spending, yes - but not by mistake.
Excuse my rancor but,...FUCK YOU and your health care.
I am tired of people telling me that there are more important issues than the civil rights of me and my family.
Right now my family is not legal in many states. So don't lecture me about my rancor.
Right now the legal status of my family is being compared to incest and child rape.
Besides, right now the Democratic Party is folding under the pressure of the Health Insurance Lobby. Just as they are folding on issues pertaining to the LGBT population.
And who the hell are you to assume that my rancor has not been directed at EVERY ONE OF MY REPRESENTATIVES?
A perfect example, DADT. The only NATO countries not to integrate gays are the U.S. and Turkey. The global model proving that it does not destroy military cohesion undercuts the only argument against it. Yet Obama's DOJ filed a brief to the Supreme Court saying that it was a risk to military cohesion.
In polling, even Conservatives think it needs to go.
And yet, Obama cannot even issue a stop-loss order to prevent military discharges while the issue is being reviewed. In fact, he hasn't even begun to review it!
Isn't our military short-handed? Where is Obama even on this? A wrong-headed policy that puts a stigma on every gay American is defended by the man.
As for your assertion that health care would benefit more people.
I disagree.
Civil rights would benefit the glbt community more, in my opinion. Unless you think that it is acceptable for gays not to have visitation rights for their spouse, or protection when their partner dies, or no federal benefits despite paying equally into the system, and so forth...
As for health care, have you seen the news? The health care lobby is so entrenched in government, even among the Democrats, that it looks like any upcoming change will be so watered down as to be virtually toothless.
I am not suggesting Obama end DOMA right this minute, but he has taken no steps on any glbt issue that matters. And he has allowed his DOJ to use insuting arguments to justify those discriminatory policies.
No other minority group would just put up with this silently.
"Please sir, can I have some more?"
Last time I looked it was OUR hand doing the feeding. And the DNC and Obama had NO PROBLEM biting. But now that our HAND is saying we will no longer FEED them from the trough of the GAYTM we finally see them waking up to the fact that we will be silent no longer. So please, what was your argument again?
Silence = Death was not just a slogan in the eighties.
It is extremely important that there be a component to the glbt community that keeps up the passion on issues that matter to us. Just as ACT UP was the most important voice in waking up America to AIDS.
This Obama supporter is rather amazed at the apparent back-of-the-hand we have been given.
This is not 1993, it is 2009. The rest of the Western world has left the U.S. in the dust on most social issues, especially glbt civil rights.
Why?
Because American politicians, fueled by a right-wing media, have a false notion that pandering to religious conservatives is the only way to gather consensus.
It is a flawed model.
Times and attitudes have changed radically.
If we can't proceed on glbt issues now, then we are in a pathetic state of affairs.
America is a center-right country? No it's not. That, however, is what the mass media leads you to believe.
You should visit Media Matters' blog and see all the ways that the media shapes the dialogue that way.
There is no demonstable proof that America is a center-right nation. If it were, Barack Obama would not have been elected and Democrats would not have the majorities they currently enjoy.
The world has radically changed. America is one of the last Western nations to move forward on glbt issues. There is now a global model we can look to. We have seen it work elsewhere. This is hardly a social experiment. It is not a matter of 'if' we get our rights, but how soon.
Additionally, Proposition 8 started inspiring a new activism.
I do not disagree that we fight on a state and local level. I am all in favor of propping up Progressive candidates in our primaries.
But to ask us to not seek to have President Obama follow through on his promises...you forget, Brayden...he made them to us while campaigning...is abdicating our responsibility.
I do not mean to be disrespectful, but it just seems you're asking for appeasement.
My apologies if I am wrong. But, if I am not, that is not a strategy that works for me.
Being silent protestors in the 60s did not jumpstart the glbt civil rights movement, Stonewall did.
It was Act UP that kept the issue of AIDS in everyone's face.
In this case, silence may not equal death, but is would definitely equal codifying second class status.
In an interview with Amy Goodman, for Democracy Now, the former Army Secretary under Carter, Clifford Alexander, has come out strongly in favor of lifting the discriminatory policy.
Among other things, former Secretary Alexander states:
"The policy is an absurdity and borderline on being an obscenity. What it does is cause people to ask of themselves that they lie to themselves, that they pretend to be something that they are not. There is no empirical evidence that would indicate that it affects military cohesion. There is a lot of evidence to say that the biases of the past have been layered onto the United States Army."
I have the interview and links posted if you want to check it out: http://leliorisen.blogspot.com/2009/06/former-a...
In contrast, the Senate hasn't lifted a finger on any of this since the Democrats took over in 2007. They haven't even scheduled a vote on hate crimes, which is the least controversial of the "big four." And yes, the obstructionists in the United States Senate are emboldened by the mixed-messages coming out of the White House.
First, the administration compares homosexuality to pedophilia and beastiality. Then they have Obama come out against DOMA in a throwaway speech. On DADT, the administration says they have no intention of tackling it through a stop-loss order. Then they say they have "no plans" to lobby Congress on it. Then after being raked through the press, they claim they're "actively working" on it, but provide no proof that any work has taken place. The reason the president and his aides can't keep their story straight is because they're lying.
I got no reply.
Get on the phone and blast their emaill systems , and yea stop donating to the DNC. But this other crap has to stop if you want others to be on our side.
I'm tired of people spelling "whining" as "whinny." We aren't a bunch of horses.
Why should the legal status of my family change every time we cross a state line?
Why should I be calm when my love is compared to child rape?
Why should I donate to someone who only communicates to me through eloquent speeches and donation requests?
Why should I be happy that a few federal workers got some basic rights extended to them, but nothing that will help in the case of a medical emergency or death? There are laws on the books today that treat the family dog better than any LGBT partner could hope for.
Why should I pay the same taxes as everyone else, to fund a military that I am not allowed to join? A military that recruits white supremacists and gang members, but discharges Arabic linguists and medaled heros.
I am a fair minded person. I understand that things don't change over night. But I also have my limits. I expect hate and condescension from Reupublicans, BUT I WILL NOT ACCEPT IT FROM THE PARTY THAT I SUPPORT.
But, so is what we are advocating.
And, we are not advocating doing ONLY one thing. We can multi-task. We can stop donating and be active in multiple other ways at the same time. Theze things are NOT mutually exclusive.
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting difference results.
NO GAY RIGHTS = NO GAY DOLLARS
And, that voice appears to be being heard and the politicians have been running aroung trying to placate us the past week.
Now, we just have to continue to tell them that it isn't necessary to go "digging up" trinkets to offer us. They KNOW hat we want. DO THAT.
Apologize for the DOMA brief
Exec stop loss order on DADT
tell us the ACTION PLAN with timelines for DADT and DOMA repeal and for Hate Crimes and ENDA legislation.
See how easy it would be to make us happy and re-EARN our support.
I am very angry with Obama, and it is good we, as a community are speaking out and taking the money away.
Let them know we will not be taken advantage of, but the nasty name calling has to stop.
Everyone here seems to be saying, no money, no votes until you deliver. And, you seem to agree with this.
So, can you provide an example of what you don't agree with?
What is your issue, that we are doing this in full public view of Obama's enemies? Do you expect us to take this actions in private and behind the scenes so as not to cause trouble in ather areas? I just can't tell from your posts what is is you want to see stopped.
If the pols what to have or provide opportunities to DISCUSS our issues with us, then have them do so at REAL WORKING MEETINGS where they are NOT trying to get money from us or not trying to schmooze in a cocktail party setting where Obama will appear for about 5 minutes and be GONE.
We do need to set up working meeting with the pol to get them to understand our anger and outrage on what has transpired this past week.
The money has to stop coming into the DNC.
it's not just the people like me who post on blogs and protest and march, it's my "moderate/conservative" gay friends who are PISSED. these are people who don't get riled, who don't make a stink, who (in the past) have been patient. they're done with obama and the democrats if they don't come through on something SOON.
WITHOUT THIS SITE THE SMALL WINS (as you call them, i call them bones thrown at us to shut us up) WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
*sighs and rubs temples*
Bravo, John!
I've just started to read Douglas Rushkoff's "Life, Inc." and wow: deja vu. People get so accustomed to a mode, most become oblivious and others don't know how to get out of the trap.
Principles and values get thrown out the window for expediency. The prosperity baby boomers have enjoyed, controlled and exploited has engendered complacency.
Would McCain have givren us those paltry benefits we just got? Maybe not. But he might have moved faster on DADT because as a military man he'd see the damage it has done to the forces.
And his DOMA brief could not have been any worse than Obama's... there's only upside there, folks.
And for the record -- I'm a big bleeding heart liberal who contributed to and volunteered for Obama. And got kicked in the balls.
There has to be grassroots support for gay issues, from the non-urban closeted gays as well as the straight voters who helped elect Obama. I don't believe it's unobtainable. But how do we obtain it? It sounds perverse and feels naive to say it, but (deep breath)...What does Oprah think about this situation? Oprah, whose power is such that by simply posting a KFC Grilled Chicken coupon on her website all but brought the company to its knees because they were so under-supplied. Can you imagine what just one Oprah show dedicated to showing the damage, the physical and emotional suffering being caused by DADT could do? How many Oprah-holics even know the policy exists? THEY'RE the ones who'll call their congresspeople and complain and demand DADT be terminated, even if it's just "because Oprah said so!" I don't know positively whether Oprah is thoroughly supportive of the gay community, but she does have a strong sense of when people are being wronged. There has to be insider help and support - inside the country, that is - to get the treatment and respect we deserve. If we keep going back to Congress and expect they'll eventually lift a finger to end DADT and DOMA, we're just banging our heads against the brick wall we ourselves helped to build and are just now, to our unbelivable horror, finding it out.
By no means am I a "fan" of hers, but...I think "What would Oprah do?" is a perfectly valid question.
Really? Because if they fuck up healthcare and don't have an honest to goodness public option/singlepayer option passed by 51 votes in the senate i'm out. I'm not going to bother to vote Dem anymore when they betray core constituincies and can't get the single biggest issue right just because of the money they won't be getting for reelection.
I'll still vote, but it'll be for for socialist/communist candidates, because I guess giving up political/economic freed is the only way to get healthcare that doesn't cost a third of my income every month. (self-employed)
I'm tired of this bullshit coming from dems, oooo we don't want to overreach? When the polls show 75% of the country says the system is helplessly corrupt and broken and the only republican solution is standing with insurance companies you guys still don't know? FUCK THEM.
Our economy isn't "coming back." About half a million people have been laid off EVERY MONTH in 2009. (Obama probably made huge gains with voters during the campaigning by chastising Bush on how many jobs were lost on GW's watch. It's actually become worse since Obfuck took office.) Many of those laid-off folks had health care that they will lose. If the situation gets dire enough, I would hope Americans would hit the streets around the country and hit the gates of the White House, DAY IN AND DAY OUT, until SOMETHING gets done. That is the only way change is going to happen. The ruling elites will not voluntarily give us single payer health care or any other programs that help level the playing field.
I'm beginning to suspect that Obama isn't really in charge. There are some powers behind the throne directing things.
24 hours a day. Damn! We all get it.
If you are so fed up with this issue, then why don't you go post somewhere else? ANYwhere else. Almost EVERY other blog is ignoring this issue completely.
I am pissed off! I am not an animal fucker or a child molester or someone that sleeps with his sister. I expect this ignorance and hate from the Republicans, but I WILL NOT ACCEPT IT FROM THE PARTY I SUPPORT.
Not any more.
Checkmate.
It's a common misconception that she refused to go to the back of the bus.
Too crowded.
Put you're emotions in check and look at the bigger picture because all of this carping so soon in this presidency is losing you allies.
The president could at least use his bully pulpit on our behalf instead of using his DOJ to compare us to child molesters.
Piss off. You're losing US as an ally.
Cooler heads will prevail and we'll do just fine and get it done without you..
It's been won by people who pushed and shoved and fought and refused to be mollified with half assed bones tossed their way.
It's not about cooler heads, it's about pushing the dinosaurs out of the way and embracing new tactics that actually HAVE an impact rather than cling to failed strategies that so-called "allies" prefer because it doesn't rock the boat.
No gay rights, no gay dollars, no gay votes. They've held us hostage for decades with promises of "maybe doing something". if we just voted for them and donated more hard earned gay dollars and for what?
NOTHING.
It's our turn to hold them hostage with the threat of being pushed out of power by their own spinelessness, which should have been done LONG ago.
Keep clinging to your antiquated, failed strategy. Keep the boat from rocking. Don't make any noise and don't dare to upset people. It'll keep you busy and out of the way.
Aravosis doesn't speak for me. I'm not going to boycott any organization because they wanted to go to an event that might help communicate our needs and issues to the president. In fact, I'll applaud them.
I'll also applaud people who are committing civil disobedience, protesting, whatever. But this community doesn't have to eat itself.
The community is in dire need of a full blown enema, we have "leaders" who are basically telling the rest of us to sit down and shut up and take what we're given so they can keep going to galas and be in Barry's good ol boy club for house faggots.
No thanks.
In any community, hierarchy, or species there is a certain amount of natural selection that goes on. Some people are just political dead ends and need to be surpassed by more aggressive members.
Back away from the Democrat and Republican parties and stand for the constitution and take the power back now.
http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/black...
Why can't Obama do this?
You are the loudest voice you have...
Write a letter asking for the (a) repeal of DOMA, (b) federal recognition of gay marriage and (c) repeal of DADT.
Then call the White house on the telephone. Then write a letter. Then send an email. Then twitter. Then start on your congressman.
Then get your friends to do the same.
Then start an online petition...
Keep is simple and straight forward -- Three things is all anyone remembers. Be loud and be heard at the White House. Heard in Congress.
This is the way to be heard and be effective. Be vocal and noisy and swamp them with messages and never stop until you get what you want.
Here is the link:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
2) Who said I haven't been deluging them this whole time
If you didn't, don't bother to criticize until you DO IT. Put your money where your mouth is!
a) you were also posting a blog entry
b) people who are so passionate about an issue that they spend time in front of a computer on a Sunday morning probably have already done the "legwork" of which you speak
PREACH IT, brother! EXACTLY...
INTERVENTION TIME!
The DNC losing their gAyTM privileges for a while is something that is appropriate and a place where we have enough power to make a difference. That's going to be the only way to get Congress' attention.
The White House is another matter -- we don't have direct power to push them... instead, we need to push their buttons. Continue to meet, but continue to express our disappointment (and anger) at how behind the times they are and out of touch they are and how 1990's GOP they sound, etc... and keep replaying their own words from the campaign. Get under their skin.
Oh -- and if people want leadership in the community, it doesn't help recruit new leaders if they know that they'll be flamed, undercut and shot at from the sidelines if their least little move doesn't conform to the "right-thinking bloggers" notions.
And frankly, being undercut and flamed because you tell your base to shut up and be glad for your scraps is flaming and undercutting very well earned.
That's not leading. That's failure.
I support Obama and had questioned his decisions several times during his campaign. Every damn time, it turned out that he knew what he was doing and I was just too short-sighted to see it. Every damn time!
I don't get why he's doing what he's doing on this, either. I'm gonna give him a little more time, though, I think, before I get out the pitchforks.
Might there be some reverse psychology going on? With the Republicans saying "No" to anything Obama suggests, might it be that he's looking for THEM to suggest that Gays are NOT incestual child molesting miscreants (at which time the entire country would say "Amen")?
Now go ahead and attack me for being racist.
Seriously, there aren't a lot of blacks in the media. And saying that 'working class blacks' need to do anything in order to move forward ignores the fact that blacks are only about 13% of the population and probably even less of the voting population.
I wouldn't call you racist because your motives do not appear to be driven by hate. But you seem a little ignorant about the just how much power that African Americans have.
Last Thursday, the Attorney General filed a legal brief in a California federal case challenging the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) that made arguments that compared same sex marriage to incest. Thursday, President Obama announced the extension of some benefits to LGBT federal employees; just not the most coveted ones, like health care and pension benefits. Oh that's right, Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) prevents that and you just wrote a legal brief defending it. When I wake up each morning, I feel a bit schizophrenic myself, "I love Obama, I hate Obama, I am ambivalent about Obama." It's maddening.
Someone get me a Prozac.
I ask, "Mr. President how can you argue for the legality of DOMA, when you are for its repeal?"
You really are talking out of both sides of your mouth and my community knows it.....
Mr. President, your DOMA mistake awakened a sleeping giant. He is mad as hell and is not going to take it anymore. You better get LGBT affirming legislation moving quickly or the coffers of the LGBT community will be slammed shut on the fingers of your administration and the DNC. You and the DNC may find themselves asking about our donations "if not now, when" as we have been asking about our rights for the last few months.
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/11559/the-l...
I hardly call that a defense of Obama. One can support the President as President, but not support ALL of his actions on every issue. Your comments are off base in regards to his (wide-lol j/k) stance on the issue. I support a lot of the "agenda" we were sold on as a bill of goods in the electoral process, and on those issues I will be vocally supportive (still keeping my cash though) as I SHOULD be. Let us slam the right people, and not those who have stood up to be counted, especially someone who was a leader in Obama's campaign for President. For him to make his public statements was a HUGE deal. We need to remember that.
I am afraid if DADT gets done first, because it is the easiest due to public opinion, that we will be told that's all we're going to get. Basically told that the equality account has dried up. Try again later, maybe next round.
If we had the right to marry, he could come here and live with me. As it is, I'm taking early retirement and moving to Europe so we can live together.
But I still think that a good strategy is to repeal DADT first. But I support almost any efforts to get us our rights, in any order.
It’s heartening that our community is finally stirring from 15 years of complacency, and it will be very interesting to see how the fundraising protest unfolds. But always remember that our main goal is to win passage of our legislative priorities. Protest is just a means toward that end. It’s very easy for protest to become end in itself, an addictive emotional high that comes at the expense of the main goals. I was in ACT-UP during the late 1980s and saw how misdirected anger caused us to blindly lash out at inappropriate targets, waste our energies on infighting, and burn out our members. The final result was estrangement from the larger community and ACT-UP’s demise.
Toward that end, we need to stay engaged with Obama and the DNC. We can accomplish a lot more by combining confrontation and lobbying than we can by employing either tactic on its own. Except for the fundraising protest, I recommend that we ratchet down our rhetoric this week. In the first place, it’s important to see whether Obama and the DNC have gotten the message. With this week’s DNC meeting, White House party, and especially the DOJ meeting, the Obama administration is clearly signaling that it wants a truce and a dialogue. We should engage with them to ensure that this dispute is not just about lousy communication. (The DOJ meeting is by far the most important of the three, since it will be the best indicator of their future actions.)
The second reason for cooling down the rhetoric this week is that the online LGBT community is getting out ahead of the offline community. I attended Pride here in Portland on June 14th (a couple of days after the DOJ brief) and asked several people if they’d heard about it. Almost no one had, except for one volunteer at the Oregon Stonewall Democrats booth; he was as upset as we were. Even the person in charge of the HRC booth hadn’t heard about the DOJ brief yet. Offline word of mouth is spreading, but it’s slower than blogging. It's going to take a little time for the offline LGBT community to realize that our blind trust in Obama has been misplaced. It’s a process. Time is on our side; let’s use that fact to our advantage. I recommend that we give Obama until the end of this week to see whether he acts to correct these mistakes. We shouldn’t insist on an apology, because that’s both too easy (he could use more words to squirm out of honoring his committments) and too difficult (it doesn’t help our cause to cause Obama to lose face.) Rather than symbolic gestures, we should keep a laser-like focus on our top priorities: the DOJ should stop defending DOMA in the courts, and Obama should issue an immediate stop-loss on DADT. These steps only require a show of will on Obama's part; once these steps are secured we can then turn our focus on Congress to build support and finish the job.
We shouldn’t need to wait for long. We’ll know by June 29th whether our protests have affected the DOJ's approach to the Massachusetts DOMA cases. That will be the best indicator of whether Obama intends to change course.
Our community has delivered what amounts to an ultimatum: either the DOJ stops defending DOMA in court, or it’s war. This week we play the waiting game.
Hmm, what do you make of this? Gays to petition first lady and pelosi, and news conference cancelled?
Hope that mean nothing ontoward for Petrelis.
I've heard something like this on Judge Judy....
Asking the beaten housewife about her second husband and why does she stay with him....
She says " he doesn't beat me up as much as my first husband."
I know it's a bit harsh...but...
.why do you defend Obama?.....he doesn't treat us as bad as Bush did.
Making threats to the community for not being sufficiently militant is a sure way to fracture the movement. Let's not forget who the real enemies are. WHy the hell do we keep forming circular firing squads?
If we don't engage productively, and carry our share of responsibility rather than expect it to be carried, the most likely response is a big "F-U" from the straight Dems. THey don't need the headache from us as well as the other guys. Let's take them at their word and get to work with them. Will we be dsappointed? Inevitably. But we'll be disappointed more if we don't take our share of the responsibility.
It's been a few decades. We've been happy to let them work behind the scenes and donate money to them.
Not any more. THey've proven their uselessness and their willingness to sell their own communities down the river for a nice party and some champagne.
It's been a long time since the community has been fired up, and it's been a long time since our "leaders" actually did anything of note.
Time for some new blood.
Only, that's not what was said in the brief. Barney Frank pointed that out, and in your hysteria, you charged him with throwing gays under the bus. Yes, I'm so sure that Barney Frank, of all people, is throwing gays under the bus. Really, he's just another adult that the little kids here at the little kids' table can throw a tantrum about.
When are you going to stop with the self-defeating, overheated rhetoric? Your snide tone, hyperbolic name-calling, and dextrous lifting of out-of-context quotes is indistinguishable from any run-of-the-mill birther. Once you started referring to Obama as a "fraud," it's a pretty small step from referring to him as "the Kenyan."
But hey, don't listen to me, read the brief yourself and decide for yourself.
http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/obama-justic...
But please don't insult our intelligence and suggest that the DOJ's DOMA brief did not cite cases of the state banning incest and pedophilia as the two examples of why it's okay for the state to ban gay marriage. People can go an read it for themselves.
And for you, here's a little video you might enjoy. Well, actually, we might enjoy it at your expense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znQe9nUKzvQ&feat...
Thanks for proving my point about your ridiculous, hyperbolic rhetoric. Is a "former homosexual" anything like a "formerly credible blogger?"
In my opinion, his not understanding the pain that the DOMA brief specifically caused the community, ESPECIALLY after the nightmare of Proposition 8, shows the problem with Frank.
He is so entrenched in the establishment, and his own personal position in the new political order, that he has become grotesquely out-of-touch with glbt sensitivities.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely and I think John was making the point that he is a totally different man in Washington.
I tend to agree.
The New York Times pointed it out in an editorial. Howard Dean referred to it in his interview with Rachel Maddow. Many have pulled out of the upcoming fundraiser because they have seen many references to the offensive nature of the wording of the brief, not because they are afraid of angering John. That brief went way beyond what needed to be said, if they were going to defend DOMA. I think we can thank the Mormon holdover from the Bush Admistration for that.
If you want to be an apologist, go right ahead.
I was an ardent Obama supporter and I would have had far more respect for him, at present, if he had the decency to apologize for the language used by his Justice Department. If he does not distance himself, it ultimately means he codifies those remarks.
I was gonna post on here today about the brief he filed on DADT, but edited my comments when I saw John had already included it.
Sorry, but an apology would have been far more effective than trying to act as if providing some benefits for some federal workers will make everything better.
It is apparent that the glbt community is a very low priority.
The White House would not have even reacted had they not feared a loss of revenue from wealthy donors.
I do not think we need to be over-the-top in our rhetoric, but I feel the need to forcefully express our anger, in combination with a cutoff to the funding our community provides...until we see some action...not mere window dressing.
We have waited our whole lives and Obama does not even have the courage to show any movement on DADT, despite polling showing it is a safe move. Forget that only the U.S. and Turkey are the only NATO nations in the Dark Ages on this.
Not only that, his DOJ team argues against DADT before the Supreme Court.
Enough is enough.
Sometimes actually expressing honest rage and anger is cathartic and healthy, rather than pretending it doesn't exist.
If it means not getting the A-list invitation to the White House gala, so be it.
Where, exactly, did I say that John was the "sole person, etc.?" If you feel that your intelligence was insulted, maybe it's your lack of reading comprehension that is the culprit.
My reading comprehension is just fine. And I can smell a hypocrite a mile away.
My point in writing that comment, specifically referred to your writing about John's alleged,"dextrous lifting of out-of-context quotes."
Your very clear implication, when one looks at the totality of your comment, is that John is inducing anti-Obama hysteria by falsely reporting on the brief. Or are you now denying that?
Your implication is that he is out of the mainstream. Yet many read the exact same thing into it. Olbermann, Maddow, the NY Times, Professor Dean, and on and on.
Did they also lift it out-of-context as well?
By being nasty and snarky with me you just cut into your own credibility.
It's funny, they keep talking about the 60 votes in the Senate. The Democratic leadership should be careful about that, since that was one of the issues in NY that caused the uproar in the NY state Senate.
what, is the term "fraud" forever off limits in whatever context just because some nut-jobs on the right wing used it once?
what would you prefer we call someone who says one thing and does another? someone who takes our money and calls himself a "fierce advocate" and then slanders us in a legal brief?
we're suddenly the ones who've messed the rug because we don't want to hand over our money and support anymore?
It's AmericaBlog that is co-opting the birther's language, not the other way around.
((( "no one here is using that term in that way, and you know it." )))
I can't determine the difference in intent between two people using identical words. How do you do it?
My point is, this site (which, by the way, has served as my homepage for 4+ years) is using the same demeaning language, the same endless snark, the same hatred, and the same overarching cynicism as the birther sites. Tell me, in what way is this site any different, at this point, than NoQuarterUSA.net?
granted, there is quite a bit of snark and cynicism floating around. i think it's justified. i don't hate obama. i voted for the guy! i do feel cheated by him - quite simply, his actions on GLBT issues haven't lived up to his rhetoric. i'm holding out hope that that will change.
but, until it does, i'm not sending any money or support his way.
i'm not sure what language you refer to when you say "demeaning." maybe language someone was quoting from the DOJ brief? seriously though - i can understand the anger and frustration.
this community has been used and abused (literally and figuratively) for years. we've sat in the back of the bus and waited patiently, for years.
This means that gay people who check these sites this weekend will not see how awful that brief was.
I think that the DOMA / incest comparison should be a banner headline on all gay sites for the next year (or until DOMA is repealed, which looks like it could take ten years or more).
If the Democrats lose control of congress in the midterm elections next year, it could be another ten years or more before the Democrats control the white house, senate, and congress again.
The Gay are pedophiles should NOT shock anyone. The man has never committed to any cause other than his own advancement. EVER. For God sake why didn't people like you do any research?