DISQUS

Ben Dover · 1 year ago

I must admit to being surprised. I figured he didn't really "love America" until he found his $100 million dollar Sugar Momma, her jet and several homes.

He probably does "love America" more deeply than he would at a Navy Captain rank and pay grade.

Soundboy_jeff_meanie · 1 year ago

do you think that's his nickname for cindy's bank account? 'America'??

naschkatzehussein · 1 year ago

I just read somewhere else that Obama is distancing himself from Wesley Clark's comments that McCain does not have command experience. Clark is perfectly correct, and maybe they are just playing bad cop/good cop, but I'm getting a little tired of Obama always apologizing for his surrogates. He is not going to win this election by treating McCain with kid gloves. I suppose the next thing is that he WILL go kiss Bill Clinton's ass.

PeteWa · 1 year ago

You guys have noticed that the Repukes play this very same game, haven't you?

Wingnut groups attack Kerry - Bush says, "awww, that's not fair *smirk*"
Repuke groups use racism against Obama - McCain says "gosh, wish I had some power to stop that?"

I think the game is called politics...

ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith) · 1 year ago

THANK YOU!

I swear I was gonna scream if I heard one more naive comment about Obama not backing Clarke. This is politics people. I'm almost certain Clarke and Obama talked about this before the comment was even made.

Obama simply can't come out as being in Clarkes corner on this because he will effectively lop off tons of potential voters who feel sorry for what happened to McCain. This is exactly what surrogates like Clarke is for, clarke can make a statement like this and not a single person in the room can say he doesn't have the background to question McCains military record.

time for progressives to grow up and get past the short-sighted need to be righteous and actually focus on the goal of getting elected. Obama is playing this perfectly, this issue has been opened as a question mark for discussion later and he doesn't have to clean the mud off of his suit for racing it directly. This was perhaps one of Clintons bigger blunders, too many times she flung mud directly or had surrogates too connected to her (like Bill) do it. Wesley Clarke is not very well connected to Obama at all (that we know of), so his criticism has a kind of insular aire to it of coming from the "opposing party", but not from Obama directly.

stevegs · 1 year ago

Yep, it's just that the Democraps don't play it as well!

BorninUSA · 1 year ago

John, the msm is so in love with McCain that he could burn the flag on stage and throw the Constitution on top and the msm would find a way to blame it on Obama. All morning they have been ripping Clark up about his statement that in no way was attacking McCain's military service. But it has been twisted and spun so much now I don't even recognize what they are saying as being even close to what Clark said. MSNBC has called in all the repug hacks to come in and give their spin to Clark's remarks. And to top it all off Obama goes on the defense and without naming Clark basically said what Clark did was wrong. This whole thing makes me ill. I have lost a lot of respect for and faith in Obama this morning. Almost makes me sorry for dissing Hillary. Maybe she and Bill were right all along.

PeteWa · 1 year ago

McCain admitted to being a war criminal in an interview much, much after he got back to the United States as well.
How much after?
"During the month of October, 1997, some 30 years after the shootdown of John McCain, some 24 years after McCain returned to the United States, a 60 Minutes interview with Mike Wallace aired on CBS. John McCain, being herald as the potential GOPs nominee for President in the year 2,000, stated that he was a war criminal because he had bombed, "innocent women and children."
http://www.ojc.org/powforum/capital/mccain/trns...

travelingtrav · 1 year ago

I would like to invite you to my basement where I would ponder how long I could break your legs, arms, hang you with your arms behind your back, starve and dehydrate you while at the same time let you sleep two hours a day. The reason why I would offer such an invite would be purely for research purposes so I can post the results on blogs like these. My hypothesis would read (and through the scientificaly designed six step method, probably prove out that) I could turn you into a bubbling fool with in the first 48 hours (much less FIVE YEARS) and by the end of the process probably have you film and produce a movie admitting that not only are you having a homosexual relationship with young boys since you were twelve, but that you actually wrote the communist manifesto, had breast implants, and plan on living in Tehran as a mullah. Get over your self fool.

BorninUSA · 1 year ago

Read your post twice and still can't make sense out of it. McCain made these remarks many years after his imprisonment. Do you think the treatment he received in prison caused him to say he was a war criminal? Surely after all those years he would realize what he was saying.

PeteWa · 1 year ago

Boy are you fucking stupid.
McCain called himself a war criminal in 1997, you useless sack of shit.
Now, if you are going to argue that the "torture" that McCain MIGHT have suffered (undocumented, and contested by his peers who were POWs at the time, in the same place) is STILL causing him to say things against his country, things that you purport he doesn't really believe, than obviously you have made the point for me that he is mentally unfit to serve this country in any capacity.
Now, travelingtrav, rock on with your imagineered toughness, mr. knee jerkoff tough-guy.

BorninUSA · 1 year ago

Obama is too new to politics. You don't make it by playing nice to your opponent. And you don't apologize for everything your opponent says hurts his feelings. Never thought I would say McCain is showing more smarts than Obama right now. The repugs are playing Obama and sticking it to him good. Where are his advisers?

mirth · 1 year ago

How do you suggest Obama change the ugly and divisive way elections are conducted if he doesn't, y'know, put those changes into play during his campaign?

Do you seriously want him endlessly mired in McBush's Vietnam war record?

ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith) · 1 year ago

What world are you living in again? Obama isn't playing nice, he's letting others play dirty, that's how he beat Clinton.

I think people like you let your visceral need to see blood flowing override your brain. Obama can't be seen as being an attack dog right now, mostly because he is so new and Mccain still has some shreds of the "nice old guy" image going.

Obama is playing it smart right now, and that is to say letting others take the stabs on the non-policy stuff like McCains record. Obama is holding McCain to the fire for his policies and that's exactly what he should be doing.

TomsOld · 1 year ago

The greatest Christmas present would be the largest voter turnout in our history and the greatest majority against McSame in election history.

stevegs · 1 year ago

The best present would be if nobody voted for pres and we start all over with someone who knows what they are doing.

Busboy · 1 year ago

Just as an outside observer who doesn't really like either candidate? I think both are behaving pretty well right now as compared to previous contests.

Soundboy_jeff_meanie · 1 year ago

is there an original thought among neocon radioheads these days?

I listened to enough of lars larson (or whaever his name is) to realize he's EXACTLY like rush limbaugh.

do they clone these people? their bluster is the same, their twists and smear tactics are the same... etc.

does limbaugh at least get royalites for his schtick?

egad... if they didn't have microphones and radio stations willing to air their garbage, they'd be asking 'do you want fries with that?'.

hawkseye · 1 year ago

And what about McSame's default on his beach home? Is that patriotic? No mention of it on any TV station this morning.

Soundboy_jeff_meanie · 1 year ago

there's nothing wrong with not paying your taxes... if you're republican.

travis90 · 1 year ago

McCain had a chance to become an American hero when his jet was hit by a zuni rocket mistakenly fired from another jet aboard the USS Forrestal. instead, he jumped out and ran, only his fuel tank was hit, he should of taxied his jet overboard and saved 167 lives.

MJHVET43 · 1 year ago

Are you insane? Did you see the same movie of that fire that I saw?
Have you ever fought a shipboard fire? ONLY HIS FUEL TANK WAS HIT?
My God....get a clue. The only reason 167 sailors died was because their firefighting
skills were awful...I've seen that movie like 50 times and I've spent more than one weekend
in the test simulator fighting JP5 fires.
That incident is what forced the Navy to revamp all their damage control procedures...
get a clue.

travis90 · 1 year ago

Yes you fucking whore, his plane was struck first and No, it was the 500 lb bombs on McCain's jet, that damn fool, that started the catastrofe. You have the balls to blame the sailors for what that damn loser McCain did, The NVA could not of done a better job of KILLING AMERICAN BOYS than McCAIN did. Now get back to work flipping burgers,

travis90 · 1 year ago

Thank you for agreeing with me.

ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith) · 1 year ago

I don't know if using a video McCain made while under duress (being a POW) is such an effective or even wise way to make a point. There are plenty of ways to go at McCain, but criticizing a statement made at the proverbial tip of a gun isn't really that compelling.

acknight · 1 year ago

The video (at least currently in this post) is of his statements in 1998 and 1999... not under duress.

MrDemocrat · 1 year ago

Barack Obama’s wife told a Milwaukee crowd, “For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country.” Was not the self-centered Mrs. Obama (who was an adult at the time) proud of her country when the Berlin Wall came tumbling down, when America and her allies won the First Gulf War, and finally when we all came together as one (I guess except for the Obamas) immediately in the aftermath of 9/11?

BorninUSA · 1 year ago

I guess maybe I wasn't "proud" either during some of these events. But that doesn't mean I don't love my country and I am as patriotic as Mr. Democrat. The Berlin Wall coming down and the Gulf War didn't necessitate my "feeling proud" and 9/11 certainly didn't make me feel proud, especially during the aftermath when the facts came out how the Bush administration ignored warning signals of an attack on the U.S.

And should I feel pride in Bush invading Iraq for no reason and the thousands of Americans killed and the thousands of innocent Iraquis killed. This was the result of 9/11 and Bush's illogical reasoning that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

MJHVET43 · 1 year ago

Hey Mr. Democrat....
on the night of Obama's clinch...I remember hearing Chris Matthew's on Hardball put it like this:

we had slavery for 150 years, then we had reconstruction that went unfunded, thus, unrealized.
Then we had Jim Crow and segregation for another 100 years, 40 years ago African Americans finally receive the right to vote...now we have an AA presidential nominee..

I think Michelle Obama should have said " “For the first time in my adult lifetime, I feel like I'm part of this country!"
Did it ever occur to you that if you treat someone long enough like a second class citizen, they're not likely to give a damn about events you feel are patriotically stirring? Why should they?

In WWII we had the Tuskegee airmen. Never lost an allied bomber to enemy fighters...
one of them came home and got hung. Does that make you proud?
I figure we all have our demons to face...
some folks risk their lives for a country that hangs them when they get home...
others live with that knowledge..and people like you wave the flag and point fingers.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

Well, newsflash, McCain didnt' even "love" our country when he was shot down.

travelingtrav · 1 year ago

There is some just things that Obama has said. People need to stop attacking McCain. The stupid diverse commentaries I see on a majority of blogs just shows the world how juvenile we have taken this political system. Obama is winning a popularity contest, he has great political savey so to speak. But he still reminds me of a clever street hustler. McCain whom I do support, has yet to find the right balance of message. He is centeristic in his ideals (which appeal to me to the center, and not to the left as Obama is). I digress. I have seen numerous posts bashing both candidates for.... mundane things. So what if McCain divorced. Over 60 percent of the population has divorced. So what if Obama is black or half black. Stupid, mundane and unimportant. What is important (or should be) is: 1. Do you support the ideals of the candidate and does he/she represent you. 2. Do you have faith the candidate can and will get the job done. 3. Which candidate if any do you think will be able to lead. I dont mean lead a cheerleading squad, I mean make good decisions and place the right people for leadership jobs in the right positions. Secretary of State: who do you think will choose the best for the job. Secretary of Treasury, Secretary of Defense, Supreame Court Judges (and various others). These are the things we should focus on. Last, and foremost: I support John McCain because he does have a history of leadership, I support him because he has a history of working with Democrats and Republicans and getting things done. I support John McCain becasue in him I see a personal stamina to stand his ground and fight, maybe for not what I believe, but, at least he has the stones to do it. Obama I have seen change direction with the wind. He left his church not because the message was wrong to him, he left the church because he was loosing votes. Obama on record said he supported the DC gun ban, then comes out and agrees with the High Court. Obama gave that idiotic catholict priest 250,000 in the senate as an earmark, and the Reverand wright that was so put down by the man recieved over fifteen million from the goverment. Yeah Obama was the candidate for change, only thing that seemed to change was his personal morale compass. A man of staminia and personal intergrity would have never abandoned his church that he believed in so much. Sorry, not voting for Obama.

Soundboy_jeff_meanie · 1 year ago

you've looked at what's become of America in the last 8 years... and you still think mccain fits #2 on your criteria list??

egad.

MJHVET43 · 1 year ago

Ok...just how far are we willing to go with disparaging McCain's Vietnam record?
I'm a staunch democrat and an Obama supporter...I'm also a Vet..from your pedigree Mr. Aravosis it appears you are not.
It's pretty fucking chicken shit of you to point fingers at a guy who got his ass shot out of the sky and had to endure that hell hole..If it had been me at the other end of that bayonet I probably would have puckered up and kissed Ho Chi Minh's ass. When your arms are being pulled out of their sockets you'll say anything.
Fuck the politics ..that was simple survival -and that instinct I-'m guessing- is involuntary..There are a lot of things you can bust McCain's balls over...this is just cheap and every bit as low as the swiftboats assholes the last time round.

ClintonHater · 1 year ago

And yet McCain found it just peachy keen when Bush, whom never did a lick of service in combat, attacked John Kerry's honorable and heroic war time record. That fact alone makes his service fair game. Its hypocritical to attack Kerry's war time record then turn around and call dirty pool when people point out that you betrayed your country.

nsr · 1 year ago

Wow. Lookit all the newbies. Looks like John hit a nerve.

karmic454 · 1 year ago

If he is an american hero for being tortured, then we must be making Arabic heros in G-Bay. If being tortured would make me an american hero that would give me the qualifications and justification for running the country, then I would let myself be tortured any day of the week.

joe23hong24 · 1 year ago

Hey unless you have been there don't knock it. And if you wanna go there then maybe somebody shoul rough you up and keep you in captivity for 5 years. This country so freakin spoiled and have no idea the sacrafices that are made everyday while you sit comfortably in your little bed at night. All this talk about Obama and change. He's an ex lawyer so he knows how woo somebody into thinking he just the greatest thing. He has no military experience and you want us in the military to follow what this man says. He lies and go back on his word about everything. Anyways, before you talk smack about john mccain at least read books like "5 years to freedom" ," hunting the jackal", and "sog". you'll see what people in this country and been doing for years make sure that we meet the enemy on their soil and not ours. how men do whatever it takes to bring down america's enemies.

michaelt · 1 year ago

oh, ok.

michaelt · 1 year ago

oh, ok.

ClintonHater · 1 year ago

I don't see why military men think they all have halos around their heads. They kill people for a living. Not exactly what I would call the most ethical way to make out a living. As far as I'm concerned the military is a necessary evil.

Fighting_irish_77 · 1 year ago

They have the most thankless job in the world as far as im concerned they for the most part go unappreciated but yet they still go ahead and make it possible for you and me to make out a living the way we choose to

ClintonHater · 1 year ago

Thankless?! Are you effing serious? There is not a day that goes by that the media or some political figure kowtows to the military. Veterans are treated like Jesus Christ in this country. What are you smoking?

tlsintx · 1 year ago

here's a book for you joe-
http://www.addictedtowar.com/book.html

you're not gonna like it but this is really why we fight.

michaelt · 1 year ago

i think this whole thing's kinda silly. but if we're going to question his 'love' for america, why don't we look at the statements he made as a POW. you know, the ones where he gave more than his name & rank.

billofwrites · 1 year ago

indeed, michaelt. would love to hear what YOU have to say under torture, too.

i suspect you'd howl more than that little bitch in the photo next to your name.

michaelt · 1 year ago

i would give my name and rank. just like they told me. i wouldn't accept special favors. i would die before i dishonored myself.

would you like to come say that to my face and test your little theory?

beer069dude · 1 year ago

I truly believe that criticizing a man after being brutally tortured and only doing as he is ordered to do is the most selfish, utmost unruly, and rude remark anyone should even be making. No one should judge Senator McCain, for they themselves were not there when Senator McCain was possibly forced to make these video's. Either way the man is an "American Hero"! That I believe is something no one should ever question or should care to comment on unless you've been in his damn shoes!
The media is getting ugly and they are just pissing everyone off. As for the comment's made by Senator McCain and Mrs. Obama about their love for America; those are only true comment's.They both had to go threw rough time's, one in war and the other in the racial war of the mid 20th century. Mrs. Obama having to deal with the hatred and racism while she was in school and at college, John McCain saw the love for his country after being brutally totured. War tends to have that affect on all of us. Just take a look around at all the American flags and patriotism after 9/11.

1deadcat · 1 year ago

If your objective is to make McCain look unelectable based on this evidence you've failed miserably. This is ill-advised commentary and not helpful to the cause of putting Obama into office in November. I think I speak for legions of Democrats who would ask you to retract your statements post haste.

acknight · 1 year ago

No, you don't.

1deadcat · 1 year ago

Believe me. You are not helpful.

jesusbikerfreak · 1 year ago

I find it disrespectful and disgusting that you would attack a verterns record merely for self gratification. Let alone a man who has spent time as a POW. You should be ashamed of yourself. You are no different than the small guerilla political groups on the far right accussing Obama of being muslim, terrorist, anti-patriotic, or racist. The next time you are tempted to criticize someone concerning his or her service, or speculate on what war imprisonment and torture might prepare you for, please consider the only reason you are able to write this garbage so freely is men and women in uniform put their life on the line for you to have that right. I truly have to believe Barack Obama would find what you have written to be just as repulsive as I do. At least as a potential leader of our country and military, I would hope he does.

goforit042001 · 1 year ago

I would like to know about John Aravosis' military background, as well as any qualifications he might have that enable him to understand what it's like to be in combat and a POW. I would also like to encourage him and his fellow leftists to continue their attacks on Sen McCain's military service record--it will help him in defeating Obama by demonstrating how so many Dems are unpatriotic and disrespectful to our military and POW's.
Thanks, John Aravosis

tlsintx · 1 year ago

multi-headed troll-

you are trollific

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

Actually, I support all those brave Americans who were captured and who didn't make propaganda tapes for the enemy. I'm still amazed that there's now a torture-exemption for making propaganda tapes for the enemy. I hadn't heard that before, especially from members of the military.

Fighting_irish_77 · 1 year ago

As i said before......I'd be curious to how you would hold up after 5 years of torture. Some how i get the feeling youd be begging to make all the propaganda tapes you could if they would leave you alone. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i have to be honest Mr. Aravosis you disgust me.

duffy208 · 1 year ago

Again, you astound me with your ingnorance and baffle me with your incessant desire to use this one example as the defining issue. Here's some hard, cold, truth. Every POW broke down and gave in at some point. Some made propaganda films, some smiled under a communist flag, some signed confessions to things they didn't do. It's IMPOSSIBLE to resist completely without jeopardizing either your own life or the life of your fellow prisoners. I'll say it again - it's impossible. The idea is to resist until you simply can't resist anymore. Everyone has a breaking point. Some took months, others took years. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Accept this fact and stop making a fool of yourself (to those who know better).

goforit042001 · 1 year ago

Please keep doing what you are doing--it will help McCain in the general election for sure--some may even think you are a Republican operative disguised as a nutty liberal--and you never did answer my question on your life experiences qualifying you to analyze the valor or lack thereof of POW's----

TexasRainmaker · 1 year ago

So a candidate's wife who's lived a good life in the U.S. saying that she's sincerely never been proud of her country equates to a brave soldier's insincere comments taken after days of brutal beatings and torture at the hands of the enemy. The liberal logic never ceases to astound me.

http://www.texasrainmaker.com

acknight · 1 year ago

1998 and 1999, long after the time as a POW, is now supposedly directly impacted by the time as a POW?

That's pretty late timing for those "insincere comments" to be as a "brave soldier."

ClintonHater · 1 year ago

What? He made these comments decades after his captivity. Are you like retarded or something? Oh nevermind you are a Repuke so that goes without saying.

And maybe Michelle was not proud of her country because her parents had to live under Jim Crow. I'm sure if your cracker parents were subjected to the same conditions I doubt you would be so proud of your country. And what reason did McCain have for not being proud of his country? He doesn't have one probably because he is not even a real American. He is not a natural born citizen and shouldn't even be allowed to run for president.

beer069dude · 1 year ago

I agree that just because you serve in the military your not an angel, nor perfect, but who is? The only reason McCain is in the running to be President, is not because he was tortured or for his service. He is running because this is a free country and he worked his way to the top!

BorninUSA · 1 year ago

He bought his way to the top with Cindy's money.

shawbrooks · 1 year ago

My Father was a military pilot who served in three wars. His plane was shot down and he was captured as a POW and was in a Stalag camp. After World War II when he came home he actually testified about his POW experience before a congressional comittee. My Father is buried at Arlington National Cemetary and I know he is spinning in his grave. If Mr. Aravosis would like to educate himself on military service or the brutal conditions a POW endures I would be glad to inform him. I have photograhs, documents, a manifest and many of my Father's belongings. In the meantime John McCain did serve his country and he has to be given the understanding and respect he deserves.

acknight · 1 year ago

So everything that a former POW does, post-release, is verboten?

That, shawbrooks, is absolute bullshit.

mirth · 1 year ago

"...he has to be given the understanding and respect he deserves.

Key word...

Fighting_irish_77 · 1 year ago

Agreed Shawbrooks, after reading about this article on another website i just had to come to this website and register and leave my opinion on this trash.

I doubt very much that this so called writer would hold up nearly as well as John McCain after nearly 5 years of continious toture also as far as i know this "gentlemen" has no military experience so who is he to judge what John McCain did or didn't do. I know i wouldn't be able to endure as much as he had so i wouldn't blame anyone if they gave in

frisbee · 1 year ago

I was stationed in the Phillipines as a medic in 1973. We went to Hanoi and retrieved our men. I remember John's face and all those we liberated. If anyone says this man is not a patriot and deserves his place at the table today, then that man is a cowardly excuse for an American. By the way, what do you think Obama is going to do when we are attacked again, I mean AFTER he changes his pants!

ClintonHater · 1 year ago

Well considering McCain got special treatment since he was an admiral's son, I doubt he was subjected to the same conditions your father was subjected to.

And maybe John just can't bring himself to kill other people, unlike your father. But thats ok, because we need cold blooded killers like your father to defend our country.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

Actually, people like John McCain don't think I have the right to serve my country. Though I have to say that I hope that serving in the military wouldn't make me more tolerant of people who make propaganda tapes for the enemy. I'd like that think that most of our service members would have a problem with that.

stevegs · 1 year ago

You must be a sniveling creodont that hasn’t figured out how to leave this earth. It’s unfortunate and a blessing that freedom of speech belongs to all and includes dough brains like yourself.

ClintonHater · 1 year ago

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

this is fun

stevegs · 1 year ago

Agree

BorninUSA · 1 year ago

These repug trolls are hilarious! Thanks for the laughs you idiots.

tinylitess · 1 year ago

God what is wrong with you people. I this blog for children or something. Honest to god. I've never read so much nonsense in my life. I've never been to rightwing blog but I''m going to check it out. But this stuff you guys have on here...its...its..its just stupid.

ClintonHater · 1 year ago

Go... Go... Go ahead, Ju... Ju... Junior

MAJMark · 1 year ago

That’s the American left for you Tiny. Full of hot air, with nothing to say of any substance.

GoldH20 · 1 year ago

So while John McCain was in a POW camp Obama's mom was breeding with a black communist and accusing our men in the field of war crimes. TOGETHER They produced Barack Obama who is a Marxist and has never had the courage to wear the uniform.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

Breeding? Yes, we have racists for McCain now too, in addition to those who support making propaganda tapes for the enemy.

duffy208 · 1 year ago

You ignorant fool - to stand in judgment of someone who's experienced something you can never comprehend. Watch "Return With Honor" and tell me those men aren't all patriots. Attend SERE school and tell me it's possible to resist ALL torture. You may be educated and well-traveled, but you have never experienced pain and suffering to the level of ANY POW. EVERY POW broke down eventually. EVERY POW was tested to the limits of their health and sanity. EVERY POW did what the enemy wanted at some point. EVERY POW was used, abused, and exploited. You will never know the truth of this until you SERVE, until you SACRIFICE, until you STAND IN THIER SHOES. Shame on you for standing in judgment - we owe him a debt that can't be repaid. You are a simply ignorant.

ClintonHater · 1 year ago

Are you retarded? John is gay. He can't even if he wanted to because the military administration is full of ignorant bigots. You and other people who are equally as bigoted as you are prevent individuals like John from serving their country in uniform. So your criticisms are ludicrous.

stevegs · 1 year ago

So Johnny Boy, I take it that you've been a POW and you resisted all the torture, never gave in and you now stand before us as some kind of super idiot...good one Johnny!

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

People like John McCain don't think I have the right to serve my country. But again, I just don't believe any of you. No one on the right thinks it's okay for American servicemembers to make propaganda tapes for the enemy under any circumcstance. I don't believe any of you. In fact, if I argued that it was okay for US troops to make such tapes denouncing our country, you'd accuse me of hating America. And finally, none of you were that upset when the Republicans were trashing another Vietnam vet named John Kerry.

stevegs · 1 year ago

I believe we have a better understanding of what those men went through and are more tolerant as to the "propaganda" films they were forced to make...I can't even start to imagine what it would have been like...can you? Honestly????

Ben Dover · 1 year ago

John, did you order us some new trolls as a present? These new ones are a real hoot! They're going to make this election cycle something special. Thanks! :)

B.D.

FirstShirt · 1 year ago

John,

Of course it is not OK to make propaganda for the enemy. No question about it. You are absolutely correct. The point is there is a point where everyone will break. We soldiers are trained in POW scenarios. One thing we learn is that you will break. Some quicker than others. But, you will break.

hawkseye · 1 year ago

Goldh20, This is so idiotic it's hilarious.

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

What happened to McSame's real wife? Ya know...the one he sanctified his vows with?

TexasRainmaker · 1 year ago

Keep the military service issue front and center, liberals... it will never be a winner for your party.

michaelt · 1 year ago

it's not what you say that's funny, just the matter of fact tone you say it in.

hawkseye · 1 year ago

I loved it too.

ClintonHater · 1 year ago

We don't have to there are other people who will do it for us:
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com...

singledad · 1 year ago

How could Sen. Obama lose to Sen.McCain at this point?
If the Left starts acting as petty and stupid as the Right has been. If Sen.Obama's supporters start looking like Limbaugh listeners, McCain just might pull it out.

Sen. Obama is brighter, more charismatic, has vision, has MUCH more money and is ahead in the polls. Sen. McCain is thought of as elderly and not especially well liked by his own party's traditional supporters. He'd have to be vilified using a bunch of Coulter/Rove cheap shots for him to suddenly get a groundswell of support in his defense.

Is the rational for acting in this manner really "They did it to Kerry."? By that rational the Left may as well turn into Bush. That rational suggests that it's just about tactics and pettiness. CHANGE is what this election is about. TRIUMPHING over the pathetic way politics has been done in recent history (especially the last 7 1/2 years), not mimicking it.

It's happened before. The Republican Party was in its death throes. They had shamefully politiced and Gingriched themselves out of relevance. And yes there was Lewinski and a Florida voting debacle, but why did it get so close in the first place? People hated loud petty liberals. Not "loud" because they were standing up for their principles. Their loud spinning and demeaning and petty behavior. Bush was a knee jerk reaction. Not for all of his supporters. Just enough to make it close enough to steal the Presidency.

I, a Nader/Gore voteswapping Green, was even disgusted at the blatant demeaning of anyone who had a contrary thought and the passive aggressive labeling that became a cliche of the Left then and a business model for Fox News later.

The biggest referendum of this election by the American people is about CHANGE. So together we can change the one in charge from conservative to liberal or we can change the nature of our National discourse. OUR actions decide that and they decide that right now.

With a dying ecosystem, rampant poverty, a broken health care system, education in crisis, two wars, soaring gas prices, and an economy in free fall, let's not get mired in trying to pull off our best Ann Coulter impersonation. Let's look forward to how we can solve these problems and bring us all together.

and finally...

OBAMA for PRESIDENT in 08!!!!

DisgustedWithSpin · 1 year ago

I am a total political independent, unlike most here (obviously) ... so, a few observations:

1. Don't be naive and think that Obama has nothing to do with negative remarks against his opponents. Think of a campaign as a movie ... very scripted, with every move planned and premeditated, with few exceptions (or should I say miscalculations). So Obama's minions attack, and he acts like Mr. Clean. An intelligent person would not allow himself to be so easily duped. So that means that the people who have commented here are mostly either dummies or ideologues who don't care about the truth but just want to win at any cost.

2. Most would agree that Bush has been anywhere from a disappointment to a disaster. An honest person knows that referring to McCain as McBush is the mark of a weak thinker who is merely repeating the spin he is fed (same for the weak minds who call Republicans "Repukes" ... really the sign of an inferior nervous system). As for McCain's war record, I don't think it's appropriate for the Clintons, Bushes, Cheneys, Obamas, and all the rest to comment as they made sure they were about as far away from serving in the military as possible (not to mention McCain's refusing release to stay with his men, and consequently be tortured for nearly 6 years).

3. Rather than get bogged down and caught up in inflammatory rhetoric - of the kind espoused by the extreme partisan Aravosis - wouldn't it make more sense for Americans collectively to learn how to think for themselves? To read different opinions, entertain contrasting points of view, and then make an informed judgment based on just that ... information.

4. Always keep in mind, both sides play games. You are being monitored and manipulated every step of the way. Don't fall prey to the ideologues ... who in the end do not give one wit whether you make your credit card payments this month or lose your house the next. Isn't it HIGH TIME that we all start asking questions and holding people accountable for their promises, their integrity, and their leadership?

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

Inflammatory rhetoric? Like saying that making propaganda tapes for the enemy is a "bit disloyal"? Pretty outrageous position, that was.

DisgustedWithSpin · 1 year ago

I did not serve in the military, Mr. Aravosis.

Please share your insights and personal experiences in the military.

The thought of being shot down and captured by enemies in a time of war does not sound pleasant to me. Nor does being imprisoned in a small, dark, cell filled with stagnant, dirty water, roaches, rats, and excrement.

Not to mention opting to STAY in that environ and refusing a privileged release.

OH ... I forgot the torture for nearly six (6) years.

When you can expound intelligently on the above based on your personal experiences, then I think impartial readers will give your "opinions" due weight. In the meantime, as the saying goes, "consider the source."

FirstShirt · 1 year ago

DiscustedWithSpin,

I tend to think along the same lines as you. The state of politics in America is discouraging, to say the least. Truth is not relevant so long as the negative "Sound Bite" is circulated through the media. Apologies, disclaimers, and the like have little meaning after the damage is done.

I am retired from the US Army and I'm a Vietnam vet. Let me assure you that McCain having endured treatment at the hands of the North Vietnamese for as long as he did is a remarkable story of courage. His comments while under duress have no significance except to those persons that wish to denigrate his good name.

I am sickened by the fact that so many of us even listen to this type of diatribe. Politics is scandalous in our great country. National elections are simply a side show. 90% garbage, 10% issues. The Two Party system is on a course of self destruction.

DisgustedWithSpin · 1 year ago

I salute you for your service, and that is said with all seriousness. I was not of the age to be drafted, and so I did not have the military experience. But I've heard stories, from friends and relatives.

Of course your insights into war are much more profound that mine since you LIVED it. And all the talk in the world is no substitute.

What distresses me is, despite the number of intelligent people there are in our country (and I am for the moment not addressing the scary dumbing-down / intellectual dilution that is taking place), the seemingly limitless smearing, lying, manipulating, posturing, pandering, and shamelessness ... work!

This is why better people don't "audition" for political jobs. They have too much integrity to stomach it.

That is a very sad state of affairs.

Sure, politics was always rough, but at least it still attracted the likes of our great past leaders.

Now, what do we have? A society that more or less stays content as long as they have their ipods and National Inquirer.

Sad ... and painful for the thinkers.

FirstShirt · 1 year ago

Politics in America is a real conundrum The puzzle is why in the world
voters care more about irrelevant things and don't give a damn about
crucial issues when looking at candidates! Everyone seems to care
about the issues until they have to determine a candidates stance on
those issues.

Far too much time and attention is devoted on digging up what Obama
said 15 years ago. Or, his wife's comments. Or, what McCain said 35
years ago. How about taxes, budget, security, etc?

Gallup Poll indicates Congress has the worst approval rating in
history. Hovering at 12%.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/108142/Confidence-Co...
Yet, incumbents reelection rate is 98% for the House, slightly less
for the Senate. 88% of Americans are disgusted with Congress but we
continue to put them in office? God help us because we obviously
aren't bright enough to help ourselves...

jr · 1 year ago

"hating your country and leaving your wife are badges of patriotic honor"-cable news

Ethrdg · 1 year ago

The absolute best, most hilarious moment comes at about 7:25 into the segment.

DAN ABRAMS (quoting John McCain again): "I didn't really love America until I was deprived of her company."

LARS LARSON (still blindly determined to bash Michelle Obama): "But she didn't!"

DAN ABRAMS: But you're missing the point, Lars---JOHN MCCAIN said it!