AMERICAblog: White women begin to turn away from Clinton
TheOriginalLiz
· 1 year ago
'bout time!
dad
· 1 year ago
why should they be any different?
Change is what is sought. Not in sex or color but in policy. Clinton is the same.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
When Edwards quit the race, I was torn between Clinton or Obama. I had to pay attention to what they were saying because I lost my candidate. Initially I viewed them as equal. After a month or so I realized they weren't that far apart on the issues but they were worlds apart on how they approached the campaign. I began to dislike her tactics and now actually despise her "kitchen sink" approach. She has since been shown to exaggerate (I am being kind) her experience over and over, reminding me of a similarity to Bush. I don't want another Bush in office. Right or wrong, I think Obama is more able to lead this country, only time will tell.
ericgoldman
· 1 year ago
How many of these white women are small town church goers with one or more guns in their houses? Because this poll was taken April 3-6; Barack's statements on the bitterness of small-town Pennsylvanians didn't hit the news until April 11.
HereinDC
· 1 year ago
Ouch! ( The Jesse Jackson comment from Bill is what turned me off from the Clinton Campagin)
Guess Obama is getting off message but I'm sure that it is all the Clintons doing.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
Well, we don't want ardent Clinton supporters to hang it up and go home -- we want to encourage them to support Obama (assuming he finally becomes the nominee).
And we don't do that by calling Clinton names or insulting those who supported her.
Paul_In_SF
· 1 year ago
Yep, just like in that movie: "Where are all the white women?"
johnosahon
· 1 year ago
just in mccain has instructed his staff not to attack hilary and focus on obama, because hilary will be EASY to beat.
With all due respect, when was the last time a Clinton lost an election to a Republican? for all the "easy to beat" rhetoric, they're record is pretty poor. Obama? Obama has performed well in states like Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, and Wyoming. States that have a snowballs chance in hell of going Blue. Meanwhile, his willingness to disregard the voters of Florida and Michigan, his loses in California, Ohio and soon Pennsylvania means his chances in November rest on his ability to turn some red states blue. Not bloody likely.
TimK
· 1 year ago
The idea that because Obama lost, or probably will lose, to Clinton in certain states (California, Ohio, Pennsylvania) he will therefore lose to McCain in those same states is idiotic.
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Well, he's likely to win California but he's no shoe in for either PA or Ohio, both critical swing states. Why is it so hard to believe Obama could lose Ohio and PA? He has not proved he can win in big industrial states save his home state of Illinois. Toss in Michigan and Florida where Republicans will do their best to remind voters that Obama didn't want to hear from them in the primaries and a loss in either Ohio or PA makes winning in November nearly impossible.
Dianne_in_DC
· 1 year ago
Watched Carville and Matlin on Meet the Press yesterday. I enjoyed Carville pointing out that Penn as her chief strategist lacking in one thing - a strategy for winning! LOL.
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
This morning's speech by Senator Obama has struck a growing chord...I've heard from several "iffy" people already and they are very positive to the American people first message. Corporate America's gonna expect HRC to be downing a few more shots between rifle blasts...
PeteWa
· 1 year ago
So.... tired.... of.... Hillary....
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
In an earlier thread an obvious pro-Clinton supporter brought up something that I knew was going to be a Clinton talking point and sure enough, Clinton just proved it true. The new strategy now is not so much what he said , BUT why he blamed the voters of PA when answering the question which prompted his "bitter" response. I have no idea what the original was, does anyone know? It really doesn't matter but I simply day after day cannot believe this woman's tactics.
alexa
· 1 year ago
aquarius2 I've responded to 2 threads this morning criticizing both candidates. When Obama was in California he was asked by one of his donors why he wasn't going to win in Pa. Instead of blaming himself, he blamed the Pa. blue collar workers, who he said were,"'bitter. They cling to their guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." Alexa
GrahamCrackerDC
· 1 year ago
Barack Obama is the better person in the race. But, sad to say, Hillary Clinton will get the nomination. Superdelegates will swing to her in back-room dealing at the convention.
Belinda
· 1 year ago
GrahamCrackerDC: "Barack Obama is the better person in the race. But, sad to say, Hillary Clinton will get the nomination"
Not a chance. Not if we continue to support Obama and stick together. I don't know a single Obama supporter who would support that wench if she somehow steals the nomination. We will sit out the election if that's what it takes to wake the DNC up.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
Belinda, if you aren't a GOP troll, you should know that this divisive attitude is EXACTLY what the Repubs are counting on -- the Obama supporters who won't vote for Clinton and the Clinton supporters who won't vote for Obama.
If people like you sit on the next election, there may not be much of a point in "waking the DNC up" because there may not be much of a country left.
Clinton and Obama have nearly identical voting records and similar platforms. They are both VERY different from McCain.
A McCain presidency will be a DISASTER for this nation, essentially a third term of Bush. Can the country really stand that?
Sitting out an election to allow McCain to beat Clinton is not just cutting off your nose to spite your face, it's dooming your country because your candidate didn't win the nomination. It's a bad bad bad idea, and as unlikely as it is that Clinton wins the nomination at this point, if it does happen, we all need to support her, if only because of the Supreme Court and federal courts.
I know this campaign has gotten heated on both sides, but we've clearly forgotten who the real enemy is if you are making statements like this.
Belinda
· 1 year ago
Mike_H: "you should know that this divisive attitude is EXACTLY what the Repubs are counting on -- the Obama supporters who won't vote for Clinton and the Clinton supporters who won't vote for Obama."
Sorry I'm not PC enough for you, but I live in the world of reality. Do you know a single Obama supporter who would vote for Billary? A single one?!
The reality is that when Hillary photo-shopped Obama's picture and widened his nose in those Southern strategy negative ads, she permanently lost any credibility at all. When her philandering husband cozied up to Rush Limbaugh and guest-hosted his radio program, a lot of people were stunned. Hillary is no better than McCain or Lieberman in drag. If you want to vote for that, go ahead. But most people are living in a reality-based world.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
Belinda, nothing PC about it, I'm the one talking reality -- the reality of how very very bad a third Bush term would be.
Clinton and Obama have nearly identical voting records, that's reality. McCain's voting record is very different from both Clinton's and Obama's, that's reality.
McCain will put in more Supreme Court justices like Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas, thats reality. Neither Clinton nor Obama will, that's reality.
It has nothing to do with being PC, it has to do with being adult, mature, and REALISTIC about the real differences of real importance in the upcoming election.
The future of the country, that's reality.
(Also, when talking reality, you ought to check your facts -- the idea that the Clinton campaign photoshopped Obama was quite thoroughly debunked, see sites like: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/did_cli... if you need more information).
mario
· 1 year ago
Well said, Mike!
Some of Obama's more immature supporters need to grow up!
Mario
Ksue
· 1 year ago
Finally! I'm tired of my fellow white women boomers supporting Hillary just because she's a woman.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
Boy there are some Freudian contortions happening in the Bush-McCain-Hillary-Neocon-head!
White women choosing Obama.
I heard one redneck yesterday say he was going to vote Hillary to stop that sort of thing from gaining momentum.... I am STILL LAUGHING at that jerk.
Belinda
· 1 year ago
In Pennsylvania, Hillary is tanking in the polls big time. Don't forget her handlers claimed she would win by 30 points, lol. Now she is going to have hella egg on her face. The figures for African-Americans are devastating. Billary's support from them is now LOWER than even McCain!
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Odd then that Clinton is actually increasing her lead in PA. Oh well, Obama faithful seem to have real gift for ignoring or spinning anything that gets in the way of their hero worshipping. Good luck with that. Not sure it's a winning strategy for the fall but it should be enough to convince Chris Matthews and Wolf Blitzer.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
alexa
I don't believe Obama was blaming the PA voters, he was explaining why he was not going to win the vote there. When asked why, what do you think he should have said? I think he gave an honest answer, whether it could be worded better is not the issue.
Smarmy
· 1 year ago
Give it a bit and the whole country will turn away and dismiss Hillary. She has consumed more American time than anybody else on record. What a pathetic loser she is. She has a padded resume, is a serial liar, and her ambition has run amok. Gimme a break.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
As far as polls go, they are not accurate. Depending on which poll you believe, Hillary's margin is as high as 18% and as low as 3% and pollsters are all over the place. I think it is true that Obama will lose this state, that is something everyone agrees on. I haven't seen one poll that projects him as the winner BUT the question is lose by how much?
I'm frankly appalled at the shallowness of the analysis in this piece.
mario
· 1 year ago
Hey Belinda,
Why do you keep repeating the same lie over and over again?
Bill Clinton *never* guest hosted Limbaugh's show.
It just goes to show how far the rabid and fanatical Hillary-haters will go.
Mario
Belinda
· 1 year ago
Mario, I know Hillbots hate the truth. From Andrew Sullivan's news blog: "You may have missed it - almost everyone missed it - but Bill Clinton was on Rush Limbaugh's show the day of the Texas primary. You can hear the radio here. Limbaugh himself was sick that day, apparently, but he had already urged Republicans to cross over to keep Hillary Clinton in the race. Bill saw an opening - and went there."
"Now just wrap your mind around this: the Clintons were happy to support a cynical, partisan Republican campaign to wound the Democratic front-runner, and they were brazen enough to go on the Limbaugh show to do so."
More evidence from AP: "According to a recent Associated Press-Ipsos national poll, about a quarter of Barack Obama supporters say they'll vote for Republican John McCain if Hillary Rodham Clinton is the Democratic presidential nominee." http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iNxTApa2sQRu...
Can't say I blame them. Hillary is really no different than your typical GOP slime in drag.
Greensburg
· 1 year ago
Forget it Mike H. You won't convince anyone here. The latest polls (if they are to be believed goes something like this: If Obama wins nomination 10% of Hillary supporters will not vote for him, if Hillary wins the nomination, 24% of his supporters will not vote for her. Which canidate has the largest number of Democratic supporters following them? Which ones are truely concerned with the party?
mario
· 1 year ago
Greensburg and Mike H.,
And John Aravosis and other Obama supporters have the gall to say that *Hillary* is out to destroy the Democratic Party and call Hillary's supporters "bots"!
Just who *really* are the bots?
Speaking for myself as a Hillary supporter, I *will* support Obama if he gets the nomination. I would *never* be stupid enough to vote for McCain or sit out the election just out of pure spite like 24% of the Obama supporters would.
Mario
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Greensburg, my concern for the party is far outweighed by my concern for the country. Obama has lofty rhetoric but no history of being an effective change agent. In fact, if you strip away the rhetoric and look only at his record, one comes away with one and only one defining narrative, the personal political ambitions of Barack Obama. He hasn't shown a whole lot of interest in actually governing. I'm a Hillary supporter who will sit it out rather than vote for a candidate like Obama. That he's pretty and people like him is not a winning argument for me. We tried that last time and we ended up with the worst president in our history. Give me competence, that's all I'm interested in.
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Sir, you're intitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.
"If Obama wins nomination 10% of Hillary supporters will not vote for him..."
Hillary's latest repitition of a classic conservative talking point, that Obama is elitist and out of touch for saying that average small town Americans are bitter for good reason when in fact, they are not bitter but actually happy and content, should strike all women with a pounding thud of painful recognition. Isn't this denial of real pain and discontent, in essence, the basis for Betty Friedan's landmark "The Feminine Mystique?" Didn't men in general always tell women, in the dining room, in the bedroom, in the boardroom, in the classroom, and in the pews on Sunday, that any unhappiness they thought they felt about living out a lifetime of fulfillling the traditional roles they were expected to play, was in fact, all in ttheir heads! That true contentment rested in living out life as a Stepford Wife. That good mental health demanded that they giive up any ambition for career, profession, and creative expression, Shouldn't all modern women be angry at Hillary for supporting such a reactionary throwback to their own historiic oppression? Does winning at all costs come down to having Hillary Clinton morph into Wareen Jeffs?
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Bet they think they're better than Hillary.
Probably all independent and self made.
Don't they know the way to climb the ladder is to latch on to a man and hold on to his pants leg?
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Give me competence, that's all I'm interested in.
----
She can't even run a political campaign, for Chrissakes.
Other than that, her only other achievement were a health care debacle and votes for war with Iraq and Iran.
Competent? I wouldn't trust her with my lawn work!
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
The "effective campaign=effective president" meme ought to be put to rest already. Three words disprove that thesis. George W. Bush.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
"That he's pretty and people like him is not a winning argument for me" -----------------------------------------------------------
If anyone cares to check I believe I read that Clinton and Obama voted the same 90% of the time. One major difference from that was the vote on Iraq. Some would have you believe he just walked in off the street to give a "competent contestant" a run for her money. He may not have enough years in Washington for some but to me that is rather refreshing. Imagine, someone who has not been tainted by lobbyists, corporate interests, and deal making old boys.
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Obama wasn't in the Senate at the time of the Iraq authorization bill but he did say he wasn't sure how he would have voted on it and he also went further to say he and George W. Bush were not that far apart on the war. Of course that was when the war was popular. Obama takes money from lobbyists and corporate interests. Did you think he didn't? As for the deal making with an old boys club, Obama comes from the Chicago Democratic machine, he's no stranger to back room deal making.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Let us hope that this IS a sign of the future. The idea that Obama's latest comments are hurting him seem to be coming mostly from stale pundits and puffed up journalists who are more impressed with their own "power" than their readers.
Fingers crossed!
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
aquarius2 1 minute ago =========================================
I like the idea that Obama is "fresh" and untainted (thus far) from the dirty clutches of the lobbyists.
And on the Clinton and Obama thing (that they voted the same on 90% of the time) is misleading. The issues that they differed on are large issues that matter most to citizenry VS the matter of course smaller issues.
Clinton & Obama are VERY different and quite frankly, are growing more distant to each other every single day that passes.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
"Meanwhile, the big winner of the Democratic fist-fighting is Senator McCain. A Gallup poll released Wednesday found that 19 percent of Mr. Obama’s supporters said they would vote for Mr. McCain in the general election if Mrs. Clinton were the nominee. More startling, 28 percent of Mrs. Clinton’s supporters said they would defect to Mr. McCain if Mr. Obama were the nominee."
This is an excerpt from the March 27 issue of Opinion in the New York times.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
jaclemons222 23 minutes ago =====================================
It is a shame that you would rather support the Republican in this race rather than digging a bit deeper on the Democrats in the field.
I see that you are a Hillary supporter and your disdain for Obama is quite apparent, but it also seems that you stand more for the opposition than what is good for the Party and the country.
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Polly,
I have a lot less disdain for Obama than his supporters have for me in the aggregate. Look, I don't dislike Senator Obama, I just don't think he's qualified or capable of winning the Presidency. None of my comments attack anything about the man other than his record. If a candidate's record is not fair game in an election as important as this one, what is?
Bill Clinton guest-hosted the GOP's Rush Limbaugh program while Rush was out sick in order to slam Obama. That should tell you that Hillary is nothing more than McCain in drag.
"Bill Clinton was on Rush Limbaugh's show the day of the Texas primary. You can hear the radio here. Limbaugh himself was sick that day, apparently, but he had already urged Republicans to cross over to keep Hillary Clinton in the race. Bill saw an opening - and went there. Now just wrap your mind around this: the Clintons were happy to support a cynical, partisan Republican campaign to wound the Democratic front-runner, and they were brazen enough to go on the Limbaugh show to do so."
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
aquarius2 2 minutes ago ============================
Those stats are quite alarming and I just don't get it. How on earth could you actually vote FOR the GOP over your own interests?
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Hiya Polly
When I said 90% I was trying to point out that Obama didn't just walk in off the street. He was right there voting on the same issues as "competent" Hillary. Too listen to some they would have you believe he came out of no where and has no experience in government.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Belinda 1 minute ago ==========================================
Both Hillary & Bill's close associations with the Extreme Right Wing are not few but many. Plus the political skewing of their right leaning friends are hardly moderate but are some of the biggest and heaviest hitters on the FAR right; ie , McCain, Murdoch, Richard Mellon Scaife, Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove, daddy Bush, and the list goes on and on.
How Hillary's supporters are blind to these facts is troubling.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Polly
To be honest, I think I will pull the lever for either of them but I am going to have to think long and hard about it if it is Clinton. WIth each passing day I see things I really don't like.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
LOL, I see the naughty little Hillary supporters are mad at me, they are deleting points from me like crazy! Well, I guess that suggests I must be doing something right...
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Aquarius,
Actually I can't vote for Hillary, but I will write in Obama's name IF she manages to steal the nomination.
But vote for McCain? NEVER!
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
No Obama does not take PAC money nor does he take lobby money. What he takes is money from INDIVIDUAL people who work in those industries. you can fact check that and it was just addressed on CNN. Why is that different? My boss might want to give a donation for political reasons and I may disagree, therefore I will make my own decision and donate to who I like.
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Here's the complete record on Obama and campaign donations from PAC's. To say he doesn't take money from PAC's is not the whole story.
aquarius2 5 minutes ago ============================ (hi ya!)
Yes, I understand what you meant with the 90% agreement in voting tween the two candidates, but MOST people don't really understand that they are actually two very distinctly different people on most matters. Heck, Hillary is barely even a Democrat these days...
Hillary is this year's Joe Lieberman!
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Polly
I know what they do about the points, who cares? LOL Let them, it makes them feel important and that is all they have left.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
jaclemons222 0 minutes ago ================================
Debating a candidates policies, attitude toward the citizenry and demeanor are what is important when looking to elect anyone to office, must less the President of the United States. But having said that your comments, while you may not "see" it, are quite derogatory toward Obama, thus they don't seem balanced.
So having said that, I think that sometimes it's hard to see our own actions, comments from a balanced point of view and many of your comments seem to be goading others instead of debating the gist.
IMHO
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
I'm not trying to be "balanced". I'm pointing out things about Obama that are part of his record of public service. These things make up my reasons for not supporting him. One may call this "derogatory" and maybe they are in a strictly semantic reading of the term but they ARE part of his record.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Whereas I don't have all of Obama's donations at my fingertips, to trust a citizen journal during the highly politiczed time of a Presidential election seems to be VERY suspicious.
There are many other sites that are trustworthy to document donations than anything that can be edited in a flash. Heck I could include myself as President Bush's latest "fling". (shudder!).
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Maybe you didn't follow the link. They indeed say Obama has banned campaign donations from PAC's now but he took plenty of PAC money in his senate bid and also took PAC money for his exploratory committee. All the cutting and pasting in the world won't erase those facts.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
jaclemons222 5 minutes ago -------------------------------------------------
My last post was supposed to be FOR you, sorry I didn't get your name in the text...
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
jaclemons222
You are an ardent Clinton supporter, I am an ardent Obama supporter. About the only thing we agree on is that we support our candidates, without us neither would be where they are today. So until we have one win the nomination we are going to be at odds, hopefully once that person is chosen we work together to defeat the Republicans.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
jaclemons222 5 minutes ago ================================= You are citing so called facts from a citizen edited website for goodness sakes! That is hardly a dependable source for documented facts!
And as far as your objection to the word "Balanced", that was my take on your previous comment. ============================================ If a candidate's record is not fair game in an election as important as this one, what is? jaclemons222 ============================================ Your earlier post (see above) suggested that you are trying to be balanced in your assessment of Obama's qualifications. If you object to the word "balanced" than I apologize, but it seems most appropriate to me.
As far as agreeing that what you are posting now are FACTS is the most ludicrous part of this discussion. I like a good debate, but enjoy actual facts, not spin or rhetoric of the right.
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Look, candidates are required to disclose PAC money. It's all readily available information. Google it and you will see. Is it your contention that Obama NEVER took PAC money? That's demonstrably not true. If you question any of the facts I've mentioned, please tell me where they are inaccurate. Do you contend Obama never said he and GWB were not that far apart on the war? Do you contend Obama isn't the product of the Chicago Democratic machine? Do you contend Obama WAS in the senate at the time of the Iraq authorization bill? What fact is so ludicrous?
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
aquarius2 3 minutes ago ===================================
I worry that what Hillary is doing to the party (of which I don't belong oddly enough) will be deep and hot. I think she is not merely trying to damage Obama but seems to think that her own aspirations to power mean more than her own Party's health.
I once respected her as a New York Senator (but never would have voted for her as President) and now she and her husband have changed forever, the way I view them. It's pretty amazing to me actually...
Oddly enough, I used to fiercely defend Bill Clinton, but this whole nomination process has opened my eyes to the Clinton family. I too feel she has damaged an element of the Dem party. Here we are after 8 years of Bush, and IMHO, she has divided the party to the point where I don't know if it can be repaired.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
aquarius2 0 minutes ago ========================================
I believe that Hillary wants to do damage to both Barack and the Party a la her ravaging what should be a strong Democratic year. However, we both know all too well just what idiots the Dems can be when it comes to their own health, but I think Hill is using this Primary to hold over the heads of the Dem leaders to try to secure a high slot for herself IF she leaves the primary. I hear she's angling for both a big Dem leadership slot in Congress AND/OR the Governorship of New Yawk.
I think she is black mailing the Dems...
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
Interesting. First of all, she could be the Governor of New York without any problem. Second, she's running for President, not trying to destroy the party. She won New York, California, Ohio, New Jersey and lots of other states, what is it you expect her to do? Quit? Why? Because Chris Matthews doesn't like her? Because Obama's fans want her to? I think you do a disservice to the party when you impart nafarious motives to Hillary's continuing presence in the race. It makes her supporters less likely to vote for Obama and contributes to the fracturing of the Democrats.
mario
· 1 year ago
*Neither* Hillary nor Obama should quit the race. Why should they? They've both come this far, and are both within reach of the nomination. And if it has to go to the convention, so be it. As I said before, Ted Kennedy in 1980 and Gary Hart in 1984 both took their underdog fights for the nomination all the way to the convention, yet no one ever accused *them* of trying to destroy the party.
Mario
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
jaclemons222 0 minutes ago ====================================
To whom are you speaking?
jaclemons222
· 1 year ago
To you, Polly_tics, 47 minutes ago...
jr
· 1 year ago
"he's black he's black he's black he's black he's black he's black"-Hillary
mmedefarge
· 1 year ago
Hillary lost this white woman 16 years ago when she made that remark that she 'could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas" ( instead of swindling people at that law firm she "worked" at). She showed that she had not a whit of understanding of what daily life was like for most women in this country. Those of us lucky enough to stay home at least part time with our kids were hardly having teas, and the cookies were baked-usually for bake sales for our underfunded schools--late at night when we wished we were in bed, or at least relaxing.
So a lot of us saw the true Hillary years ago--talk about elitism! At the beginning of the campaign, I noticed that no woman in my office--pink collar workers in Hillary's age range and slightly younger, supported Hillary. And my young daughters were never taken in by her for a minute either.
It seems as though her latest attempt to smear Obama has backfired on her-I just heard he is up another point in the polls. We working folk are not stupid---bitter, angry and discouraged, but not stupid. And now we have a chance, finally, to do something really really smart.
Head for the hills, Annie Oakley---or is it Calamity Jane?
All Comments
Change is what is sought.
Not in sex or color but in policy.
Clinton is the same.
( The Jesse Jackson comment from Bill is what turned me off from the Clinton Campagin)
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/New_poll_puts_Cli...
Guess Obama is getting off message but I'm sure that it is all the Clintons doing.
And we don't do that by calling Clinton names or insulting those who supported her.
http://drudgereport.com/flash1jm.htm
Obama? Obama has performed well in states like Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, and Wyoming. States that have a snowballs chance in hell of going Blue. Meanwhile, his willingness to disregard the voters of Florida and Michigan, his loses in California, Ohio and soon Pennsylvania means his chances in November rest on his ability to turn some red states blue. Not bloody likely.
I've responded to 2 threads this morning criticizing both candidates.
When Obama was in California he was asked by one of his donors why he wasn't going to win in Pa. Instead of blaming himself, he blamed the Pa. blue collar workers, who he said were,"'bitter. They cling to their guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Alexa
Not a chance. Not if we continue to support Obama and stick together. I don't know a single Obama supporter who would support that wench if she somehow steals the nomination. We will sit out the election if that's what it takes to wake the DNC up.
If people like you sit on the next election, there may not be much of a point in "waking the DNC up" because there may not be much of a country left.
Clinton and Obama have nearly identical voting records and similar platforms. They are both VERY different from McCain.
A McCain presidency will be a DISASTER for this nation, essentially a third term of Bush. Can the country really stand that?
Sitting out an election to allow McCain to beat Clinton is not just cutting off your nose to spite your face, it's dooming your country because your candidate didn't win the nomination. It's a bad bad bad idea, and as unlikely as it is that Clinton wins the nomination at this point, if it does happen, we all need to support her, if only because of the Supreme Court and federal courts.
I know this campaign has gotten heated on both sides, but we've clearly forgotten who the real enemy is if you are making statements like this.
Sorry I'm not PC enough for you, but I live in the world of reality. Do you know a single Obama supporter who would vote for Billary? A single one?!
The reality is that when Hillary photo-shopped Obama's picture and widened his nose in those Southern strategy negative ads, she permanently lost any credibility at all. When her philandering husband cozied up to Rush Limbaugh and guest-hosted his radio program, a lot of people were stunned. Hillary is no better than McCain or Lieberman in drag. If you want to vote for that, go ahead. But most people are living in a reality-based world.
Clinton and Obama have nearly identical voting records, that's reality. McCain's voting record is very different from both Clinton's and Obama's, that's reality.
McCain will put in more Supreme Court justices like Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas, thats reality. Neither Clinton nor Obama will, that's reality.
It has nothing to do with being PC, it has to do with being adult, mature, and REALISTIC about the real differences of real importance in the upcoming election.
The future of the country, that's reality.
(Also, when talking reality, you ought to check your facts -- the idea that the Clinton campaign photoshopped Obama was quite thoroughly debunked, see sites like:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/did_cli... if you need more information).
Some of Obama's more immature supporters need to grow up!
Mario
White women choosing Obama.
I heard one redneck yesterday say he was going to vote Hillary to stop that sort of thing from gaining momentum....
I am STILL LAUGHING at that jerk.
I don't believe Obama was blaming the PA voters, he was explaining why he was not going to win the vote there. When asked why, what do you think he should have said? I think he gave an honest answer, whether it could be worded better is not the issue.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/13/polit...
I'm frankly appalled at the shallowness of the analysis in this piece.
Why do you keep repeating the same lie over and over again?
Bill Clinton *never* guest hosted Limbaugh's show.
It just goes to show how far the rabid and fanatical Hillary-haters will go.
Mario
"Now just wrap your mind around this: the Clintons were happy to support a cynical, partisan Republican campaign to wound the Democratic front-runner, and they were brazen enough to go on the Limbaugh show to do so."
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily...
Can't say I blame them. Hillary is really no different than your typical GOP slime in drag.
And John Aravosis and other Obama supporters have the gall to say that *Hillary* is out to destroy the Democratic Party and call Hillary's supporters "bots"!
Just who *really* are the bots?
Speaking for myself as a Hillary supporter, I *will* support Obama if he gets the nomination. I would *never* be stupid enough to vote for McCain or sit out the election just out of pure spite like 24% of the Obama supporters would.
Mario
"If Obama wins nomination 10% of Hillary supporters will not vote for him..."
Gallup says it's more like 28 percent.
www.gallup.com/poll/105691/McCain-vs-Obama-28-C... -
Probably all independent and self made.
Don't they know the way to climb the ladder is to latch on to a man and hold on to his pants leg?
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She can't even run a political campaign, for Chrissakes.
Other than that, her only other achievement were a health care debacle and votes for war with Iraq and Iran.
Competent? I wouldn't trust her with my lawn work!
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If anyone cares to check I believe I read that Clinton and Obama voted the same 90% of the time. One major difference from that was the vote on Iraq. Some would have you believe he just walked in off the street to give a "competent contestant" a run for her money. He may not have enough years in Washington for some but to me that is rather refreshing. Imagine, someone who has not been tainted by lobbyists, corporate interests, and deal making old boys.
Fingers crossed!
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I like the idea that Obama is "fresh" and untainted (thus far) from the dirty clutches of the lobbyists.
And on the Clinton and Obama thing (that they voted the same on 90% of the time) is misleading. The issues that they differed on are large issues that matter most to citizenry VS the matter of course smaller issues.
Clinton & Obama are VERY different and quite frankly, are growing more distant to each other every single day that passes.
This is an excerpt from the March 27 issue of Opinion in the New York times.
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It is a shame that you would rather support the Republican in this race rather than digging a bit deeper on the Democrats in the field.
I see that you are a Hillary supporter and your disdain for Obama is quite apparent, but it also seems that you stand more for the opposition than what is good for the Party and the country.
I have a lot less disdain for Obama than his supporters have for me in the aggregate. Look, I don't dislike Senator Obama, I just don't think he's qualified or capable of winning the Presidency. None of my comments attack anything about the man other than his record. If a candidate's record is not fair game in an election as important as this one, what is?
Bill Clinton guest-hosted the GOP's Rush Limbaugh program while Rush was out sick in order to slam Obama. That should tell you that Hillary is nothing more than McCain in drag.
"Bill Clinton was on Rush Limbaugh's show the day of the Texas primary. You can hear the radio here. Limbaugh himself was sick that day, apparently, but he had already urged Republicans to cross over to keep Hillary Clinton in the race. Bill saw an opening - and went there. Now just wrap your mind around this: the Clintons were happy to support a cynical, partisan Republican campaign to wound the Democratic front-runner, and they were brazen enough to go on the Limbaugh show to do so."
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Those stats are quite alarming and I just don't get it. How on earth could you actually vote FOR the GOP over your own interests?
When I said 90% I was trying to point out that Obama didn't just walk in off the street. He was right there voting on the same issues as "competent" Hillary. Too listen to some they would have you believe he came out of no where and has no experience in government.
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Both Hillary & Bill's close associations with the Extreme Right Wing are not few but many. Plus the political skewing of their right leaning friends are hardly moderate but are some of the biggest and heaviest hitters on the FAR right; ie , McCain, Murdoch, Richard Mellon Scaife, Rush Limbaugh, Karl Rove, daddy Bush, and the list goes on and on.
How Hillary's supporters are blind to these facts is troubling.
To be honest, I think I will pull the lever for either of them but I am going to have to think long and hard about it if it is Clinton. WIth each passing day I see things I really don't like.
Actually I can't vote for Hillary, but I will write in Obama's name IF she manages to steal the nomination.
But vote for McCain? NEVER!
To say he doesn't take money from PAC's is not the whole story.
www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Barack_Obam... - 110k -
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(hi ya!)
Yes, I understand what you meant with the 90% agreement in voting tween the two candidates, but MOST people don't really understand that they are actually two very distinctly different people on most matters. Heck, Hillary is barely even a Democrat these days...
Hillary is this year's Joe Lieberman!
I know what they do about the points, who cares? LOL Let them, it makes them feel important and that is all they have left.
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Debating a candidates policies, attitude toward the citizenry and demeanor are what is important when looking to elect anyone to office, must less the President of the United States. But having said that your comments, while you may not "see" it, are quite derogatory toward Obama, thus they don't seem balanced.
So having said that, I think that sometimes it's hard to see our own actions, comments from a balanced point of view and many of your comments seem to be goading others instead of debating the gist.
IMHO
There are many other sites that are trustworthy to document donations than anything that can be edited in a flash. Heck I could include myself as President Bush's latest "fling". (shudder!).
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My last post was supposed to be FOR you, sorry I didn't get your name in the text...
You are an ardent Clinton supporter, I am an ardent Obama supporter. About the only thing we agree on is that we support our candidates, without us neither would be where they are today. So until we have one win the nomination we are going to be at odds, hopefully once that person is chosen we work together to defeat the Republicans.
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You are citing so called facts from a citizen edited website for goodness sakes! That is hardly a dependable source for documented facts!
And as far as your objection to the word "Balanced", that was my take on your previous comment.
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If a candidate's record is not fair game in an election as important as this one, what is?
jaclemons222
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Your earlier post (see above) suggested that you are trying to be balanced in your assessment of Obama's qualifications. If you object to the word "balanced" than I apologize, but it seems most appropriate to me.
As far as agreeing that what you are posting now are FACTS is the most ludicrous part of this discussion. I like a good debate, but enjoy actual facts, not spin or rhetoric of the right.
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I worry that what Hillary is doing to the party (of which I don't belong oddly enough) will be deep and hot. I think she is not merely trying to damage Obama but seems to think that her own aspirations to power mean more than her own Party's health.
I once respected her as a New York Senator (but never would have voted for her as President) and now she and her husband have changed forever, the way I view them. It's pretty amazing to me actually...
Obama on trade. Speech given in Pennsylvania.
Oddly enough, I used to fiercely defend Bill Clinton, but this whole nomination process has opened my eyes to the Clinton family. I too feel she has damaged an element of the Dem party. Here we are after 8 years of Bush, and IMHO, she has divided the party to the point where I don't know if it can be repaired.
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I believe that Hillary wants to do damage to both Barack and the Party a la her ravaging what should be a strong Democratic year. However, we both know all too well just what idiots the Dems can be when it comes to their own health, but I think Hill is using this Primary to hold over the heads of the Dem leaders to try to secure a high slot for herself IF she leaves the primary. I hear she's angling for both a big Dem leadership slot in Congress AND/OR the Governorship of New Yawk.
I think she is black mailing the Dems...
She won New York, California, Ohio, New Jersey and lots of other states, what is it you expect her to do? Quit? Why? Because Chris Matthews doesn't like her? Because Obama's fans want her to? I think you do a disservice to the party when you impart nafarious motives to Hillary's continuing presence in the race. It makes her supporters less likely to vote for Obama and contributes to the fracturing of the Democrats.
Mario
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To whom are you speaking?
So a lot of us saw the true Hillary years ago--talk about elitism! At the beginning of the campaign, I noticed that no woman in my office--pink collar workers in Hillary's age range and slightly younger, supported Hillary. And my young daughters were never taken in by her for a minute either.
It seems as though her latest attempt to smear Obama has backfired on her-I just heard he is up another point in the polls. We working folk are not stupid---bitter, angry and discouraged, but not stupid. And now we have a chance, finally, to do something really really smart.
Head for the hills, Annie Oakley---or is it Calamity Jane?