DISQUS

Nigel Elliott · 1 year ago

I think Rove/McCain's strategy is death by a 1000 cuts. Individually, these attacks seem small and petty, but as time goes on, they have the accumulative effect of making Obama the riskier choice of the two candidates. It's almost subliminal, but the intended effect is to make voters think twice about pulling the lever for Obama on Election day.

And as for the media, forget them. They are enablers of McCain's gutter politics. For instance, McCain was the first to put Obama face on a US$100 bill, but when Obama called them out on it, McCain said Obama played the "race card". Now that's classic Rove: accuse Obama of doing what they already did--use the race card, and because Obama is "black", his bringing up the issue, automatically makes it a "race" issue.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/...

I am crossing my fingers, hoping Obama's campaign figures out a strategy to boomerang these smears on McCain. McCain has no honour and Obama needs to show us that he really can fight back, and not end up like Kerry.

blackwolf · 1 year ago

Great point Nigel: I think you're right on. He'd better figure it out, or we'll lose. Of this, I have no doubt.

eliot99 · 1 year ago

Yes, fight back. I actually think it would play well with MSM. They love controversy. This may be wishful thinking, but, MSM knows Rovian tactics when they see it. They might even admire the change in Dem strategy. And, if criticized, Obama responds that this is the new kind of politics he talks about. Dems fighting back tough and hard.

jr · 1 year ago

Obama needs to still hire Jed. Jed makes 40 videos in the time it takes Obama's camp to make 1 and Jed's are still better

Bush_Bites · 1 year ago

Yeah, or some group needs to start paying Jed and distributing his videos far and wide.

(That mean YOU, Moveon.org!)

Bison · 1 year ago

Um, wow. You know that Amy Chozick piece in the Wall Street Journal that asks whether Barack Obama might not be fat enough to be President?

Here’s the on-the-ground research that enabled Ms. Chozick to pose such a bold and allusive query:
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/10322.html

Journalism at its finest.

liberaldemdave · 1 year ago

Hey, Bison...
Go read this diary at dKos on the Wall Street Fish Wrap op-ed:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/2/92118/64...
Awesome snark.

KarenMrsLloydRichards · 1 year ago

Nice revelation: Chozick is a Murdoch whore who actually incited the extremist responses in the story (some of which could have been trolls mocking the story's ludicrous premise). This needs much airing to show how Murdoch and the ratfuckers running McCain's campaign operate.

tlsintx · 1 year ago

i agree, John.

back when the swiftboaters attacked Kerry, their tactics went largely unnoticed by everyone but the wingers and the susceptible undecideds...

lots more people are onto that shit now and lots of people don't like it.
plus, as good a person as he is, there was something about Kerry that allowed some of that BS to stick to him. it's not sticking to Obama.

JMOHR · 1 year ago

No, the tactics did not go unnoticed. The MSM continued to broadcast and debate the commercial until every one in the US had knowledge of it. The impact was the weakness and inability on the part of Kerry to fight back.

falloch · 1 year ago

Larry Madill at Daily Kos has a post about the McCain advert and the 'Left Behind' people. While there may be some religious folk who feel the equation of Obama with the Christ is blasphemous, Madill thinks this is a 'dog-whistle' to the Left Behinders and their expectation of the Rapture and the Anti-Christ. I'm inclined to agree. Here's a good article from Joe Bageant, though from 2005, it's not dated at all:
http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2005/12/what_the_...

liberaldemdave · 1 year ago

the hole in that theory, however, is that obama as anti-christ actually improves his "electability" with those end-time fundies. it's the same logic that they apply to being pro-israel. they only support the state of israel because it plays into their sequence of events necessary for armageddon.

falloch · 1 year ago

You're right liberaldemdave - they are even scarier than I thought. I've not taken into account that people who look forward to the end of the world would embrace their enemies. Reminds me of recent post on Orcinus talking about how right-wing is looking forward to Obama election cause that'll cause more of the kind of chaos that right-wing isolationist types relish.

cay · 1 year ago

Last paragraph--1984?

Õ¿Õ · 1 year ago

It doesn't matter.

Õ¿Õ · 1 year ago

The moron TN. shooter was pissed, too, but he didn't kill those responsible. Hate to be the big heavy and I hope you two are right.

cmpnwtr · 1 year ago

I think you're right on this John. Obama's favorables have not suffered. Time will tell if McCain's favorables do or not.

eliot99 · 1 year ago

I don't think they will. Too many people view this as the way campaigns are supposed to go. That's all they know. Obama wants to usher in a new kind of politics, but wanting is just that...a want. Unfortunately staying above it all is viewed by many as weak.

serge · 1 year ago

John..." In 1984, we were still suffering from the September 11th effect - people were willing to forgive a lot because they were scared to death..."

You might wish to change the year...

Bush_Bites · 1 year ago

It just seemed like "1984."

Indigo · 1 year ago

It seems like it happened in 2001. My, how time flies!

JMOHR · 1 year ago

Yes, the attacks will hit home and hurt Obama. We have already seen the set of sleazy ads stall out and equalize the race between Obama and McCain. After the european trip, Obama should have been in the lead throughout the Olympics while attention was diverted to the games. Now, McCain will go into the dead zone as having gained and equalized against Obama.


Second, Bush campaigned in 2000 as a bipartisan sort of guy who would put aside the rancor of partisan politics. He was successful as the compassionate conservative and one bringing a new brand of politics to the front. One certainly would have expected a different outcome in 2004 when we knew that he was an asshole and divider. Indeed, he was so low in the polls that the Democrats had to lose the election just as Obama is now poised to do.

The Republicans used to beat up on the Democrats by using their little surrogates. Yes, there was no direct connection. Do you really believe that the public could not tell that these were funded and part of an overall Republican campaign? Get a brain.

No, the Republicans are not going to hide it this time. They will paint Obama as weak and inexperienced, And what better way of doing it than by bitch slapping him in public with these disgraceful ads?

liberaldemdave · 1 year ago

um, as of yesterday, mcInsane had only pulled even with obama in one poll according to the folks on hardball last night.

ron071 · 1 year ago

JMOHR : Please don't fall for the rationale that McCain has pulled even with Obama just because the Gallop daily tracking poll is the one featured daily by the MSM. The facts are that Obama is ahead in all of the other national polls and many of the state polls.

lark83 · 1 year ago

John, your comments sound very intelligent and reasonable. I hope you're right.

dommyluc · 1 year ago

I hope they crush that lying mother-fucker McCain like a bug. He deserves it. And when is the media going to call McCain what he is - a flip-flopping adulterer. How come it's alright to call Clinton an adulterer but not McCain? At least Hillary wasn't crippled when Bill got head from Monica. And Cindy is a pill-popping homewrecker. Let's start saying this over and over until the MSM can't ignore it anymore. I am tired of Saint McCain. Let's bring that pompous SOB down to earth and eviscerate him with the truth.

Õ¿Õ · 1 year ago

I'm going to meditate on this the rest of the afternoon with all my shades pulled shut. I'll come back and report.

LynnDee · 1 year ago

I hope you're right. Re the messiah ad, though, I've read that the religious symbolism may actually connect with those lunatics who think Obama is the anti-Christ. I don't enough about the symbolism to know what strains of Christianity would be offended and what strains would be responsive... anybody know anything about this?

liberaldemdave · 1 year ago

christians that don't use their faith for politics or bigotry (like myself) will be GREATLY offended. the end-timers, faux-evangelicals, fundamentalists will eat it up with a spoon...maybe even enough to vote for obama to help push "prophecy".

as if GOD needs THEIR help!

KarenMrsLloydRichards · 1 year ago

Gallup Daily: McCain and Obama tied for second day in a row at 44 each; McCain up 4, Obama down 5 from a week ago. Seems like Rovean ratfucking is working precisely as intended.

Sage24 · 1 year ago

You make several good points. I think old Mac embraced the ad by even stating that he is Proud of it. Someone should come up with a video of McPain and his wife stating that they will not resort to dirty attack ads, and then show their recent flip flopping. I agree that the media has responded in a much better manner than in 2004, but they keep lumping both the candidates together, when everyone knows it is the McCain camp that has turned to Rovian tactics recently. Obama's news conference was great today, and he spoke about these issues straight on.

I would recommend not only the Jed Report to the Obama camp, but perhaps he should hire the writers of the Daily Show too. Jon Stewart, somehow nails it precisely, and is able to find old clips that disprove everything the Rethugs say.

eliot99 · 1 year ago

I too agree with the Jed Report recommendation. They've been saying all along that the key is McCain=Bush. If that isn't the association in the mind of voters then it could be bad news.

ron071 · 1 year ago

This article may have a strong degree of wishful thinking and I would not leave it to the MSM to do the job on the McBush sleaze. Obama campaign ads ought show the sleaze in living color and then add some policy differences.


WANT MORE PAIN ? ? ? VOTE Mc CAIN !!!!!!

Sage24 · 1 year ago

I like that. Do you want more pain? Vote for McCain.


Perhaps the Democrats should use it.

ron071 · 1 year ago

Sage: You can help by sending an e-mail to the Obama campaign with the
slogan as I have: WANT MORE PAIN???? VOTE Mc CAIN !!!!!!!



**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-r... )

eliot99 · 1 year ago

I agree and don't trust MSM to handle this appropriately. They love scandal and controversy. I also agree that there's a great deal of wishful thinking here. I may be way off base, but I think Obama needs to hit back and hit back hard. Aside from the implications the ads send, Obama looks like he was rocked by it. Like he was naive and truly expected Republicans to run an "honorable" campaign. Staying above the fray is noble and all that, but if allowed to continue, these ads will have a greater effect. He needs to show he's not going to take it like Kerry. Finally, he needs to kiss and make up with Bill Clinton. He was successful in fighting this crap off and Obama could use him on the trail right now. People generally view him (now), as unfairly attacked for 8 years. He is the symbol of the unfair attacks and could reinforce that in people's minds with imagery and words.

ron071 · 1 year ago

Eliot: You can rest assured that Obama will continue to answer the sleaze
but in a way which will reveal it for what it is. Even in politics, one can
be forceful in responding without getting into the dirt. John Kerry did
neither and that hurt him. However, let us remember that if not for the chicanery
in Ohio by the extreme right-wing secretary of state, Kerry would be our
president. So, the lesson is to win by a margin that makes a third electoral
theft impossible. I have learned by their operation that Obama has an
extremely competent and well experienced campaign, and my confidence in him and them
is high. He responds to all of the sleaze, but not in an unnecessarily
vulgar manner. One does not have to fight in the gutter to win the fight. Keep
the faith. The vast majority of the polls favor Obama by 5-7% at this point.

Bottom Line Is: WANT MORE PAIN?????VOTE McCAIN!!!!! Voters will, in the
final analysis, vote for whomever will clearly bring an end to the disaster
wrought by Bush/Cheney/and the Republicans who are responsible for the huge
ditch America is in today. Best, Ron



**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-r... )

AdrianBrowne · 1 year ago

Some "analyst" on the BBC was saying that this ad is similar to when people started mocking George Bush's manner of speaking -- which ended up helping him.

Bush_Bites · 1 year ago

Not trying to concern troll here, but this (admittedly very small) study is the only data we have on the subject, so I figured it would be worthwhile to repost as part of the discussion.

How successful the ads will be at turning what are widely perceived as Obama's strengths into weaknesses won't be known for some time. Experts have warned they could backfire on McCain, making him seem bitter and petty and emphasizing differences between him and Obama.

A small study of people's reactions to the Britney-Paris ad suggested, however, that while people don't like the ad, it caused them to doubt Obama, and small percentages who'd said before viewing the ad that they'd vote for him said afterword that they wouldn't.

Those declines didn't result in more support for McCain; doubting Democrats and Republicans instead moved into the undecided column. Independents who moved away from Obama did say they'd vote for McCain.

The study was conducted among self-reported Democrats, Republicans and independents by HCD Research and the Muhlenberg College Institute of Public Opinion.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/46165.html

KarenMrsLloydRichards · 1 year ago

This study, limited as it is, does ratify the ratfuckers' intent: to alienate cynics from voting at all, to cause doubt in voters leaning to Obama but not committed to him, and to shore up McCain's base and stop further erosion of it. I am seeing this past week as playing into McCain's hands very nicely, thanks to whores in the MSM who are willing and able to abet his campaign.

osage · 1 year ago

Never underestimate the gullibility or emotional dysfunction of a mod mentality. Republicans rely on the stupidity and ignorance of voters to get elected, while Democrats assume that voters couldn't possibly be as stupid and ignorant as they actually are. Take a look at the following and draw your own conclusions:

http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm

eliot99 · 1 year ago

You're right. Dems operate on the principle that voters are engaged and independent thinkers. The Repubs treat them as the smooth shiny object crowd. They form their opinion based on a 15 second distortion and imagery. Unfortunately, they're often right. I hate to say it but for a great number of Americans the message has to be dumbed down, so to speak. Look at the contrast in messages. Obama's message is directed at thinking voters. McCain's is one liners. I'll balance the budget, I'll win the war, I'll cut your taxes, I'll cut gas prices, and on and on. With no substance to back it up.

blackwolf · 1 year ago

Damn! This is scarry.

Sage24 · 1 year ago

How's this for sound judgment.

After 9/11, MCain said that Iraq may be behind the Anthrax problem. Looks like Old Mac was itching to attack Iraq too. If he wasn't sure, he should not have stated this awful untruth. This is not diplomacy. McCain is a big supporter of the Bush/Cheney wars. American does not need another war monger.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/01/mccain-anth...

Indigo · 1 year ago

"Want more pain? Vote McCain!" I like that, I'll use it. I'm also considering something along the line of "Do you honestly want a candidate endorsed by Paris Hilton?"

eliot99 · 1 year ago

I like it. Spears for Bush; Hilton for McCain.

MommaKat · 1 year ago

I'd sure like to believe in and share your sentiment, but after reading the more conservative friendly MSM articles and comment blogs (e.g. WSJ, USA Today, CBS, ABC) I'm inclined to say it looks like it's working. I finally shut my computer off b/c the stupid responses supporting those ads both revolt and make me question the sanity of the collective We the People. Americans have demonstrated and overwhelming pentient for voting against its better interest, and I don't understand how those people can possibly hold the majority in our country.

I've received emails from family members (unfortunately the generation b4 my siblings and I are die hard repubs) in the last week decrying their concern for us socially brainwashed liberals and the dangers a vote for Obama constitutes. The lies about Obama that fill these emails are astounding, but if I can't fight the pervalence of these lies in my own family, how do we fight them in the general public?!? especially when the MSM does little to admit or uncover the truth and much to foster the negative perception of Obama.

blackwolf · 1 year ago

Point well made! Rove and his crew know the "timber" of minds they're influencing, and the negative attacks are working. Obama has to come up with a better strategy. The key is the MSM: they aren't calling McCain on the carpet on his insane accusations. They have the power to stop him in his tracks...or any candidate for that matter. I keep asking how we can all make the MSM more accountable!

mista · 1 year ago

McCain is attempting to lure Obama into the trenches, to make him fight back - so that Obama looks like, and can be portrayed as, the "angry black man." Thus far, Obama has responded calmly and intellectually to all attacks from both parties. He must continue in this mode and let his supporters be the angry (and motivated) attack dogs, even as he denounces us for our occasional overzealousness.

blackwolf · 1 year ago

You bring up a good point mista: He should remain calm, but he should also draw attention to the major differences in their personalities and how they approach things. The negative ads seem to be working.

pcvirginiabeach · 1 year ago

John- You are wrong. It may not work, but this is the only chance McCain has to win this. You talk about John McCain’s image and him being hurt by this- it matters not. This election is not about John McCain, it never has been, and never will be. This election is about Barack Obama, and McCain knows that. In the end, this will be decided on the merits of how many voters are motivated to come out and vote against a black man with a Muslim middle name. That is what this is really all about. McCain is smart to press dirty and nasty attacks, the more he keeps it in the mud, and the better it is for him, because it is not about him.

Obama needs to keep working hard to counter attack and defend his image, otherwise, he loses.

SociologistTina · 1 year ago

You're probably right about this on all counts.

1billinnj2 · 1 year ago

obama should keep up the attacks on policy on mcCain and never get in the gutter with him/rove. more policy ads and more family directed ads. this will show obama as the better canidate.

OlderAndWiser · 1 year ago

Some of those ads were just on the Internet, but the MSM has been giving them national TV exposure. This is the role of this unethical medium and it reaches many of those who don't surf or even have a computer. The constant discussions and opinions given by invited rightwing operatives I've never heard (where do they dig up these idiots?) of are part and parcel of the anti-Obama crowd in the MSM who want to keep the status quo.

As to polls, calls are made to landlines. Many people don't even have them anymore, esp young people. How in hell can you get an accurate poll when you are only calling people who still use those black bakelite or Princess phones anyway?

(I don't have a cell phone, but they sure as hell aren't calling me, either. I suspect they are calling designated zip codes--you know, white suburbia and environs.)

JoyceH · 1 year ago

I don't think Obama or his campaign needs to take on and underline McCain's gaffes and befuddlement - I thinK WE do.

And in that vein, I wish someone would get the complete video of McCain's press conference in Florida yesterday and get a particular clip into a video. The media has been showing McCain's response to the question about whether or not Obama played the race card, but they aren't using the full clip from question to answer.

The reporter asked McCain to comment on his campaign's assertion that Obama played the race card, and he said something like "Well, I think the words speak for themselves. I think it's obvious that he played the race card." (that's a paraphrase from memory)

But look at the whole thing, and what happened is that the reporter asked the question and McCain just FROZE for about ten or fifteen seconds. Total blank. And then he said that about the words speaking for themselves.

I saw that live on CNN, and the first thing I thought was "He doesn't KNOW what Obama said that was supposedly playing the race card!" Then his answer was completely generic and said nothing about what Obama had actually said, which just made me more sure of my initial impression.

McCain's campaign made a big deal about Obama supposedly 'playing the race card' and McCain himself had no clue in the world what the specific statement was that was allegedly playing the card. Either they didn't bother to tell him, or they told him and he forgot.

But the full clip would paint a devastating picture of a candidate mentally out to lunch.

OlderAndWiser · 1 year ago

Bingo! So are a lot of Americans...the MSM is full of them.

anotherdumguy · 1 year ago

McCain is a risky choice. Obama needs to keep hitting on that theme. He needs to go on offense and stop playing defense.

blackwolf · 1 year ago

Offense is the key. Great point.

eliot99 · 1 year ago

One of my biggest concerns is the (what appears to be), lack of strategy to respond to this. Low Road and Fight the Smears websites are all good and fine. But they're the equivalent of the referee separating the two. Not nearly as effective as a counter punch to the Rovian head.

blackwolf · 1 year ago

Excellent insight elito99: This is my concern too! You've nailed this one on the head. Obama needs to come with with a counter attack stategy along with his websites. The Rovian creed wouldn't be doing this if they didn't think it would work.

anotherdumguy · 1 year ago

Obama needs to start hitting McSame in his supposed strength. He needs to do a series of ads that demonstrate what a risky choice McSame is. His advisors and his own words establish that his policies will be very much the same as the last eight years. We can't afford that RISK.
He supports war. He does not support the troops. That is RISKY and we can't afford it.
He says one thing one day and the exact opposite the next. He is either a lier or incompetent. Either is RISKY.
His chief economic advisor says we shouldn't listen to the tax proposals McCain makes in his campaign speeches, because the tax policy that should be graded is the one on his website. Who is in charge? Not knowing is RISKY.
Surrounding onesself with nothing but lobbyists is RISKY for the country.

smiling_dog · 1 year ago

Once again, no one ever lost a presidential election by underestimating the American people.

tlsintx · 1 year ago

i think the ratfuckers made a big mistake on the Messiah ad.

they conflate Obama with Moses, aka Charleton Heston.

Obama=Charleton Heston means McDork just lost fundies, the NRA and maybe a couple million Nascar fans.

Grimmlok · 1 year ago

Obama's best bet is to basically say, as he has, "dude, that's f#cking sad. Is that all you have? That's infantile."

Point out how much of a douche McSame is being, how immature, cheezy and desperate and everything will backfire on him. Highlight how Obama is talking about the issues, and MCSame is just jumping up and down like a kid who wants attention. Make him look STUPID with his own material

tlsintx · 1 year ago

jed is good...good ideas and good videos...

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/07/three-ideas-fo...