AMERICAblog: Why the left matters. Case in point: the gays
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Gosh I hope this issue and abortion issues won't be front and center. I am pro-choice and pro gay but we don't need the repuks to beat a dead horse. Leave it until the election is over.
JennieB
· 1 year ago
Exactly. The various Democratic groups have had years (certainly many months) to figure out who Obama is and where he stands on their pet issues. Four months before the GE, when we're ahead, is not the time to get pissy and withhold support because of some fucking lawsuit that Obama had absolutely nothing to do with.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Well, my point is that people get pissy, it's human nature, and to some degree it's deserved - I mean, Paul and Donald, and gays overall, have a right to be concerned about perceived anti-gay discrimination at the party HQ. But the party needs to not write off the base, lest these little unexpected eruptions occur and there's no goodwill at the bank. That causes little eruptions to be come bigger eruptions. People are less willing to put aside their grievances for the good of the party when they perceive the party and the candidate turning their back on them.
liberaldemdave
· 1 year ago
Great, informative posting, John. One issue, however, that bothers me is being called "the" gays instead of just gay. Period.
It rings with the same offensiveness, IMHO, as our party being called the Democrat Party.
Your_Uncle_Bastard
· 1 year ago
Pardon my French, but fuck you, chica. I can get as "pissy" with your savior Obama as I damned well want to, his tepid support of queer issues is pathetic.
Treat me like a third rail, fine, but then don't come crying to me wanting my money and support because your press op is all off-message. Feh!
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Look Uncle, where are you going to go? Vote for a repuke, I doubt it. So sit at home. Than what? Repukes would love you to stay home. Sometimes there are things bigger than our own issues. I'm old, fat. I would like to see universal health care for all. But I doubt we get it in the short time. Be patient. Alot of people have come a long way.
Butch1
· 1 year ago
I don't mind lengthy when it is as informative as your analysis. Thanks.
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
Moving to the center, as tired and brain-dead a move as it is when it is change that the voters clearly want, is not the worst of it. It seems to me that what Obama is doing lately is trying to "Sister Souljah" his base. That is beyond wrong, it is insulting and ungrateful. What happened to Donald Hitchcock is symptomatic of the way the out-of-touch, inbred Washington inside culture of both parties operate. Among the GOP it is vicious, bitchy,, behind the back disparagement of the relligious right and extreme social conservataives, often led by insiders who are disproportionately gay and are closeted to all but each other. And among the DNC crowd, and the wider community of consultants, upitty gays get lumped in with those embarrassing "dirty hippies and wacked-out leftists," for insult and dismissal.
You're right on John about the harmful impact this behavior will have on the long-term momentum of the Obama campaing. I don't know if his is coming from the mind of the candidate, or from a circle of advisors who specialize in "Republian-Lite." But it needs to change, like yesterday.
Your_Uncle_Bastard
· 1 year ago
WORD.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
the out-of-touch, inbred Washington inside culture of both parties operate
I wish it were as innocent as that, that they operated out of ignorance. No what disturbs and alienates me is that these moves come not accidentally, but fully aware and deliberate, disdainful and hateful of the base such as the firing of the gay laison. That move wasn't accidental or ignorant. It was done knowing full well what they were doing with the disdainful thought that the gays have nowhere else to turn. Sorry! There is still Mickey Mouse, Pluto Pup, Pat Paulson or, gasp, even Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney who have always been far more deserving of our support than the mainstream Democratic candidates.
The same can also be said of the way Gravel and Kucinich were both tossed under the bus. Both rightfully should have long ago left the party and campaigned for Yosemite Sam for the savaging they received at the hands of their own party. The Democratic Party does not deserve the support of Gravel and Kucinich nor does it deserve the support of true progressives and liberals. Cynthia McKinney was the only one with the character and integrity to stand up for herself when they ran a fleet of buses over her.
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
i am far from a "dirty hopie," my politics tend to run to the conventional left, and my gayness is most often quiet and filtered by the habits and outlooks of my other identities, but still I am directly insulted by the message the Obama camp and the DNC sends. My Dad, borrowing from an old Eastwood western, has a saying that describes my reaction to the Sister Souljah'ing of the left: "Don't be pissing on my back and tell me its raining!"
BRob
· 1 year ago
Don't see how O can move to the middle and still remember who brung him to the dance--at least not when "the middle" is defined to mean capitulation on telecom immunity in FISA, squandering (in his speech to AIPAC) of the chance to be an honest broker in the Palestine-Israel conflict, knocking a hole in the church-state wall, opining that he always thought the Constitution permitted private ownership of guns, failure to defend Wes Clark's very correct comment on what it takes to be a Pres., and more. Those of us who brung him to the dance think that "the middle" is good old D.C. "business as usual," which hardly qualifies as "change you can believe in." And, oh, yes, is it possible that Andy (Best Little Boy in the World) Tobias and Howard Dean (led VT to civil unions) discriminated against guys "because they were gay"? I'm really surprised. If you're right, I'm also disappointed. BRob
Your_Uncle_Bastard
· 1 year ago
Best to remember it may have been some sort of expediency, and not personal support, which lead Dean to "pave the way" for second-class status in VT.
Sorry, I don't believe in half-measures to skulk in shame toward equality, and that's ALL "civil unions" are.
jcgraham77
· 1 year ago
I do feel a decrease in the surge of passion surrounding his campaign. While moving to the center is all well and good it is going to eventually pull the power cord on this campaign. Its like using a vacuum cleaner for votes and not knowing how long you can stretch out to the far reaches of the room before you unplug yourself.
Your_Uncle_Bastard
· 1 year ago
No - moving to the mythic center is NOT "all well and good". It's epic FAIL. It's once again showing the Democrats playing not to lose, instead of playing to win (which is the SUREST way to lose!!!).
Your_Uncle_Bastard
· 1 year ago
John, for the love of all that's holy, can we PLEASE stop with the "it's good to move to the middle!" BS? Glennzilla has been ALL. OVER. THIS. and he definitely doesn't agree with this mythic, mushy middle "wisdom".
Epic FAIL.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
All Obama (and the DNC) have to do is stand for equality, common decency, and defend Constitutional principles (like Obama has to do as a Senator, anyway). The fact that they don't even do this much infers far more than I wanted to know. I don't care if any of them 'approve' of my gay marriage or not (or how much money they get from the Telecoms for their "Reelection Fund"). They cannot turn their back on simple equality and Constitutional principles any 10 yr old could suss out.
What the hell is all of this 'Move to The Middle' bullshit, anyway? I want rank, leftist partisanship (tempered with the explanation that everything good in this world cames from liberal progressivism). Voters don't much care what a politician stands for so long as they stand for something and are consistent. It's all the wishy-washy-ness that has been the Dem downfall for 25+ years.
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
Why am I not surprised that certain "national" gays will again gift the right with another non issue like "marriage" and or that the (ahem!) media will abet, instigate, foment and embroider said non issue? Notice the fresh batch of missing and.or murdered girls curiously appearing along with Cindy McStain's South American unAbFabby updoo? Spookie.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
This lawsuit started over a year ago. Not to pick sides,but the DNC could have settled the case long before the election. And it's not as if Donald chose to get fired last year.
RandyH
· 1 year ago
In this specific example, I suspect that the lawsuit will be quietly settled soon, since it is a campaign season and any press attention to it at all would be unwanted. But the larger point here is a good one. And I hope that more of us on the liberal side soon learn that the general election isn't about fighting the good fight and losing. It's about playing to the middle and WINNING so that you can then make some of the changes we've been hoping for.
Some of us have been setting our expectations way too high, expecting talk of big changes during the general election that will scare the middle, before our guy is even elected. We deserve to be heard and we are being listened to, yet we shouldn't be expecting him to make public statements supporting all of our positions while trying to court the wishy-washy "swing" voters. I'd hate to see us lose this thing because we all just assumed he could win in spite of our sniping. And if he does win without our full support, why should he listen to us in the future?
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
As much as it galls all of us...Obama has to move to the middle a little because he is running for the Presidency of a NATION OF FUCKING IDIOTS who vote based on god, guns, and gays. I am not happy about the last month of his positions on FISA or Faith Based crap....but facing four or eight years of McStain and his SCOTUS potential appointments scares the shit outta me. Unfortunately Barry has to pander to the center to win this because he is talking to people with a collective IQ of 25.
RandyH
· 1 year ago
Well said.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
Thanks, RandyH. I re-read my post and it really made me sound like a moderate....I am decidedly NOT! I was in the SDS in the late sixties and even burned my draft card during the Vietnam debacle. I just think if Obama loses this, I will expatriate for good. Probably Canada as I can easily having had a Canadian parent...or at least it is somewhat easier than for most people. I used to love this nation with its hope and its beacon of light to the world. Now I feel it's just a nation of idiots who are more worried about where I put my dick at night than health care, the care of the earth, education, etc.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
But... but... but... the nation, in HUGE numbers, is sick and tired of the direction we've been going in. It's a nearly perfect storm, with Americans absolutely ready for someone to stand up for progressive causes, if only they'd actually show strength of conviction.
The pendulum has been swinging our way, and Obama isn't swinging with it, he's trying to halt it's momentum!
It's exactly the wrong moment to take a stand in the mushy middle, because it's making Obama look like he doesn't stand for anything at all, and that's the one thing that constantly torpedoes candidates, especially Dems.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Yes I totally agree with you. Either Obama or McFlipper. Moving to far to the left or right hurts both candidates. Obama is doing fine. He needs to move a little to the center. So come on fellow lefties swallow your pride we must win this important election.
Matthew Saroff
· 1 year ago
Yeah, like Obama is going to do something besides hold a concert with Donnie McClurkin.
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
Caramba, Cindy...Get me a Vic or a Perc!!! The point is winning, folks. This DNC gay lawsuit smelled from the beginning like an obvious plant timed for Aug 08 blooming and willikers I'm thimply thtunned to catch the first notes of its heady musk...And I just thought Cindy needed a scrub in one of her sumptuous private bath suites...
mirth
· 1 year ago
Whew. A hearty Amen to this post. The best I have read from you and I hope it gets linked widely.
A quibble: Obama's shift in the past couple of weeks isn't to the middle, it's to the right and the Right (at least the 23% of the Right who have little problem with gov't spying and the blurring of church/state separation and continued discrimination of anyone not like them) is not a constituency he needs to be elected. I smell Clinton campaign officials influence in directing this shift. It's a strategic mistake and Obama needs to know that his base rejects it.
Those who say "Whatever it takes," that Obama should say anything now and then change once he becomes president, do not acknowledge what the newz will do with these "flipflops" just when President Obama is needing public support, enthusiastic public support, for the work ahead. His efforts, no matter how targeted, how noble, will be drowned in media spin and in this probable blahblahblah he risks being neutered before he can begin.
As you write, the base brought Obama this far and we will not be denied the change he has promised us...and we have a duty to tell him so.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
Is the move to the middle even necessary? There are been a slue of articles stating that the 2008 elections will be a massive, massive landslide repudiating everything the Republicans stand for. Sadly, those seem to be the same principles that the Democratic Party embraces and the Democrats deserve the same repudiation. Face it, at the core both parties are not about issues or platforms, all politicians are about the same thing, power, raw power, greed and self serving. Character, principle, honor, integrity, honesty are laughing matters, hilarious jokes whispered about and still resulting in rolling on the floors hilarity and violent, violent histerical laughter. Bush doesn't even bother to hide it anymore, openly, brazenly spits on what we thought were the core principles of our nation, doesn't bother to deny that he called the Constitution that damn piece of paper.
The 2008 election will fail to be a repudiation of Bush administration. That seems to be the real intention of Obama’s move to the center. The predictions are that every Republican seat in Congress is in play. Obama sweeping the electoral college is only questionable because of the deepseated racism of certain elements of this nation. If Obama were White as well as male, he might take 80% of the vote. The move to the center is completely unnecessary. The core that refuses to vote for Obama would only if he promised bring back lynching and race based slavery, wore whiteface, swore he was a white man and kissed and embraced Clarence Thomas ... and David Duke.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Well, now . . . 1. It is not good to move to the middle, let alone to the right. 2. The DNC is a drag on the Democratic Party the way the Electoral College is a drag on presidential elections. 3. Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I can't be a hippie. 4. I suspect there's more closet cases associated with the GOP than there are self-respecting and acknowledged gays associated with the Democratic Party. 5. Ralph Nader might not be electable but he makes a mighty irritating protest vote.
rja4429
· 1 year ago
Let's get over this crap about Obama -- or any other lying politician -- "moving to the center" in order to win the White House; and once a winner, moving back left to where he claimed to come from. Yeah, sure. What's so hard about telling us his truth from the beginning and sticking to it? BO won the nomination by saying what his party followers wanted to hear -- and wanted to believe. Sadly, we believed him. Now he's sounding like John McThree and will eventually throw us under the Straight Talk Bus. Anybody guarantee he's going to become one of us again if (I used to say "when") he actually should become President. I'm beginning to hope HC turns the convention upside down and takes away the nomination. Otherwise, methinks this, for me, is going to become the year of write-in votes.
nicho
· 1 year ago
Ronald Reagan did not win by "moving to the middle." He took a strong position -- as wrong as it was -- and stuck to it. The GOP worshipped him for it and quite a few Dems went to the other side because of it. Why? Because people, whatever else they say they like, like someone who sticks to his guns.
mirth
· 1 year ago
You summarize exactly what is wrong about Obama's veer to the right. It is a strategic blunder.
jr
· 1 year ago
civil liberties are a 4 letter word in the beltway
coolcatdaddy
· 1 year ago
A politician that "moves to the center" during elections like this isn't only thinking about votes, but also about money.
With Obama's support for FISA and funding for religious charities, along with the DNC's gay problems, Obama and the DNC are figuring they can gain more votes and money by dropping one part of his base and embracing another. With past elections being so close and the spiraling costs of running a national campaign, I wonder if this strategy makes any sense. Basically, you're dumping core people that talk to friends and colleagues about the candidate or might be likely to give money or volunteer. In exchange, you get "swing" voters that are going to be sitting on the fence and aren't going to be motivated to take an extra step for a candidate.
I think Reagan and his crew understood this - a really motivated base can bring in folks from across the aisle. It makes people feel they're part of a movement instead of consuming a political product based on ads that tell you Coke tastes better than Pepsi.
This "piss off your base" strategy sounds more akin to the way that Hollywood saps any creativity out of films by listening too much to focus groups, foregoing good word of mouth and excitement from fans excited about a movie in favor of a larger, non-committed audience motivated by a blitz of ads.
Is this a strategy for the Internet Age? I just don't think so.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Excellent post, John.
gleeindc
· 1 year ago
I totally agree with this point and, after FISA, faith-based, and Iraq time-tabling statements, now mark and return all the requests I get for funds as not contributing and say why. They might know they can count on my vote, but my money and my voicing of my opinions are not going to capitulate the way the Democrats have on so many issues based on politics. As Martin Luther King said, "There comes a time when one must take the position that is neither safe nor politic nor popular, but he must do it because conscience tells him it is right."
Melanie_Denise
· 1 year ago
I've been concerned about this lately as well. I like to talk politics with some of the...err...uninformed because I think it's very important to know what is going on in our nation and what our government is doing or not doing about it. They're the sheep that the Repugnants count on.
I really, REALLY don't like talking about the Obama flaws with them because even one wrong choice, move to the center or whatever could cause someone not to vote. For him or at all. It's not a good policy, but it's one I practice. A lot of people in my workplace (I feel it's okay to talk about this because it is a locally owned hotel and we have a small workforce) are completely oblivious and/or apathetic to politics. BUT I CANNOT HAVE A BUSH THIRD TERM. And I am terrified because the MSM continues to demonize the Democratic nominee and paint McShame as a McSaint. Which is WRONG.
As much as I disagree with some of his decisions as of late, as much as I want a politician to stand for all my principles, as much as this two party system is a mockery of democracy, what would you rather have? Obama I or Bush III????
voila1
· 1 year ago
Coming from a straight white middle-aged mama in Middle Tennessee I would like to compliment your attention to the problems in the Dem party. Like many others, I will vote dem because I dont think I have any other choice. This time I hope my vote counts towards the equality this nation has wanted since its inception. Equality for all colors and genders. Dont ask Democrats to write a check and buy a ticket if we dont get to eat and dance with the varied and beautiful colored and gendered tapestry of our nation. All of us. one table,one meal. Then we will begin to mend to be the nation we are craving. one nation..united people...UNITED STATES of ALL of America. Howard, Andy, ARE YOU LISTENING?
All Comments
It rings with the same offensiveness, IMHO, as our party being called the Democrat Party.
Treat me like a third rail, fine, but then don't come crying to me wanting my money and support because your press op is all off-message. Feh!
You're right on John about the harmful impact this behavior will have on the long-term momentum of the Obama campaing. I don't know if his is coming from the mind of the candidate, or from a circle of advisors who specialize in "Republian-Lite." But it needs to change, like yesterday.
I wish it were as innocent as that, that they operated out of ignorance. No what disturbs and alienates me is that these moves come not accidentally, but fully aware and deliberate, disdainful and hateful of the base such as the firing of the gay laison. That move wasn't accidental or ignorant. It was done knowing full well what they were doing with the disdainful thought that the gays have nowhere else to turn. Sorry! There is still Mickey Mouse, Pluto Pup, Pat Paulson or, gasp, even Ralph Nader or Cynthia McKinney who have always been far more deserving of our support than the mainstream Democratic candidates.
The same can also be said of the way Gravel and Kucinich were both tossed under the bus. Both rightfully should have long ago left the party and campaigned for Yosemite Sam for the savaging they received at the hands of their own party. The Democratic Party does not deserve the support of Gravel and Kucinich nor does it deserve the support of true progressives and liberals. Cynthia McKinney was the only one with the character and integrity to stand up for herself when they ran a fleet of buses over her.
And, oh, yes, is it possible that Andy (Best Little Boy in the World) Tobias and Howard Dean (led VT to civil unions) discriminated against guys "because they were gay"? I'm really surprised. If you're right, I'm also disappointed. BRob
Sorry, I don't believe in half-measures to skulk in shame toward equality, and that's ALL "civil unions" are.
Epic FAIL.
The fact that they don't even do this much infers far more than I wanted to know.
I don't care if any of them 'approve' of my gay marriage or not (or how much money they get from the Telecoms for their "Reelection Fund"). They cannot turn their back on simple equality and Constitutional principles any 10 yr old could suss out.
What the hell is all of this 'Move to The Middle' bullshit, anyway? I want rank, leftist partisanship (tempered with the explanation that everything good in this world cames from liberal progressivism). Voters don't much care what a politician stands for so long as they stand for something and are consistent. It's all the wishy-washy-ness that has been the Dem downfall for 25+ years.
Notice the fresh batch of missing and.or murdered girls curiously appearing along with Cindy McStain's South American unAbFabby updoo?
Spookie.
Some of us have been setting our expectations way too high, expecting talk of big changes during the general election that will scare the middle, before our guy is even elected. We deserve to be heard and we are being listened to, yet we shouldn't be expecting him to make public statements supporting all of our positions while trying to court the wishy-washy "swing" voters. I'd hate to see us lose this thing because we all just assumed he could win in spite of our sniping. And if he does win without our full support, why should he listen to us in the future?
moderate....I am decidedly NOT! I was in the SDS in the late sixties and
even burned my draft card during the Vietnam debacle. I just think if Obama
loses this, I will expatriate for good. Probably Canada as I can easily
having had a Canadian parent...or at least it is somewhat easier than for
most people. I used to love this nation with its hope and its beacon of
light to the world. Now I feel it's just a nation of idiots who are more
worried about where I put my dick at night than health care, the care of the
earth, education, etc.
The pendulum has been swinging our way, and Obama isn't swinging with it, he's trying to halt it's momentum!
It's exactly the wrong moment to take a stand in the mushy middle, because it's making Obama look like he doesn't stand for anything at all, and that's the one thing that constantly torpedoes candidates, especially Dems.
The point is winning, folks.
This DNC gay lawsuit smelled from the beginning like an obvious plant timed for Aug 08 blooming and willikers I'm thimply thtunned to catch the first notes of its heady musk...And I just thought Cindy needed a scrub in one of her sumptuous private bath suites...
A quibble: Obama's shift in the past couple of weeks isn't to the middle, it's to the right and the Right (at least the 23% of the Right who have little problem with gov't spying and the blurring of church/state separation and continued discrimination of anyone not like them) is not a constituency he needs to be elected. I smell Clinton campaign officials influence in directing this shift. It's a strategic mistake and Obama needs to know that his base rejects it.
Those who say "Whatever it takes," that Obama should say anything now and then change once he becomes president, do not acknowledge what the newz will do with these "flipflops" just when President Obama is needing public support, enthusiastic public support, for the work ahead. His efforts, no matter how targeted, how noble, will be drowned in media spin and in this probable blahblahblah he risks being neutered before he can begin.
As you write, the base brought Obama this far and we will not be denied the change he has promised us...and we have a duty to tell him so.
The 2008 election will fail to be a repudiation of Bush administration. That seems to be the real intention of Obama’s move to the center. The predictions are that every Republican seat in Congress is in play. Obama sweeping the electoral college is only questionable because of the deepseated racism of certain elements of this nation. If Obama were White as well as male, he might take 80% of the vote. The move to the center is completely unnecessary. The core that refuses to vote for Obama would only if he promised bring back lynching and race based slavery, wore whiteface, swore he was a white man and kissed and embraced Clarence Thomas ... and David Duke.
1. It is not good to move to the middle, let alone to the right.
2. The DNC is a drag on the Democratic Party the way the Electoral College is a drag on presidential elections.
3. Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I can't be a hippie.
4. I suspect there's more closet cases associated with the GOP than there are self-respecting and acknowledged gays associated with the Democratic Party.
5. Ralph Nader might not be electable but he makes a mighty irritating protest vote.
With Obama's support for FISA and funding for religious charities, along with the DNC's gay problems, Obama and the DNC are figuring they can gain more votes and money by dropping one part of his base and embracing another. With past elections being so close and the spiraling costs of running a national campaign, I wonder if this strategy makes any sense. Basically, you're dumping core people that talk to friends and colleagues about the candidate or might be likely to give money or volunteer. In exchange, you get "swing" voters that are going to be sitting on the fence and aren't going to be motivated to take an extra step for a candidate.
I think Reagan and his crew understood this - a really motivated base can bring in folks from across the aisle. It makes people feel they're part of a movement instead of consuming a political product based on ads that tell you Coke tastes better than Pepsi.
This "piss off your base" strategy sounds more akin to the way that Hollywood saps any creativity out of films by listening too much to focus groups, foregoing good word of mouth and excitement from fans excited about a movie in favor of a larger, non-committed audience motivated by a blitz of ads.
Is this a strategy for the Internet Age? I just don't think so.
I really, REALLY don't like talking about the Obama flaws with them because even one wrong choice, move to the center or whatever could cause someone not to vote. For him or at all. It's not a good policy, but it's one I practice. A lot of people in my workplace (I feel it's okay to talk about this because it is a locally owned hotel and we have a small workforce) are completely oblivious and/or apathetic to politics. BUT I CANNOT HAVE A BUSH THIRD TERM. And I am terrified because the MSM continues to demonize the Democratic nominee and paint McShame as a McSaint. Which is WRONG.
As much as I disagree with some of his decisions as of late, as much as I want a politician to stand for all my principles, as much as this two party system is a mockery of democracy, what would you rather have? Obama I or Bush III????